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Are you connecting on a personal level with your existing and potential clients? You can personalize your design business even as you scale. In today’s episode, Josh Hall joins us to share how he’s used personalization to grow his design business. Listen in as he shares a few ways you can personalize your website, your client process, and your business without building a personal brand.
Personalization as a Freelancer
While freelancers and solopreneurs don’t have to name their business after themselves, personalization will still be a big part of their business, because they’re the primary point of contact for the brand. Therefore, personalization will come easy as a freelancer.
Scaling from Me to We as a Business Owner
It’s much trickier to personalize your business when you’re scaling from “me” to “we” with team members and contractors in your business. While Josh never wanted to grow into a digital agency, he did want to grow a team. Whether you’re a freelancer or building a team through a non-personalized brand, don’t be afraid to put yourself (and your team) on your website!
Clients want to know who they’re working with! If there is no mention of the people behind the brand, clients wonder who they’ll end up working with.
When Josh made the move after seven years of being a solopreneur, he had to work through a ton of hurdles. One thing he knew was that he didn’t want to be a typical agency that treated customers like a number. He decided to communicate that while he’s not a freelancer, he’s not an agency—so he highlighted his contractors on his website. Therefore, his scaled team was still personally connecting to potential clients.
Personalize Your Business with a Founder’s Note
If you’re looking for a quick tip to actually communicating who you are without being the face of the brand is to include a founder’s note on the homepage of your website. This will allow you to connect with your potential clients, then lead them into a page about the company and the team.
On that “about” page, you have the freedom to share as much or as little as you’d like with your audience. This could include your pets, your interests, stories about your journey or your team members, and so much more.
Personalize Your Business with Video
If you’re really looking to implement even more personalization into your business, consider creating personal videos. Throughout the client process, when you follow up with a proposal or design review, adding in a personal video can be a game-changer and allow you to stand out in a sea of proposals. This will also add the know, like, and trust factor that brands need even if they aren’t a personal brand.
Overall, your choice in how personal you want to be in your business is up to you. Whether you want to dive deep or stay surface level—the option that serves you best is the option you should pursue. Review your website and your branding today and see how any of Josh’s tips can help you create a more personal brand, even if you’re scaling.
Catch the Show Notes
Josh’s Journey to Design (2:52)
Personalization in the Freelance Stage (11:08)
Personalization in Scaling (14:11)
Personalize Your Business with a Founder’s Note (24:)59
Connecting Through Personal Videos (27:19)
Practical Ways of Personalization in Brands (33:52)
Opening Up About Family / His Daughter’s Story (40:21)
Connect with Josh
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Bonnie:
Hi friend, and welcome to the brand strategy podcast. A show created to equip you with the inspiration, encouragement, and clarity. You need to build a brand of your dreams. I’m your host, Bonnie BTI, brand designer, and founder of the retreat from sustainable strategy to heartfelt encouragement. Each episode is designed to equip you with the tools you need to chase after your dreams, because you deserve a brand that empowers you to do what you love, connects with your dream clients and offers a deep sense of fulfillment along the way. So grab a cup of coffee and join the on this journey. Won’t you
Bonnie:
Friends. Welcome back to the brand strategy podcast, where today we have such a fantastic conversation lined up. We are talking about how to use personalization to grow your design business with intention. And I am joined by the incredible Josh hall. If you haven’t had a chance to connect with Josh in the past, I’m so excited to get to introduce you to him and the work that he’s doing. So Josh is a web design coach, a fellow podcast host, and a web design agency, founder. Who’s based in Columbus, Ohio. He has these incredible collection of online courses. He’s got this amazing podcast, his YouTube channel, his blog, all these places where he’s focusing on teaching aspiring web designers, how to create a web design business that offers freedom so that you can live the lifestyle that you are dreaming about. So I’m really excited for this conversation all about personal, and if you’ve been a follower of the podcast for any amount of time, you know how passionate I am about sharing content and topics and conversations for designers like us, so that we’re able to figure out how we can pursue what success looks like to us.
Bonnie:
So I think this is gonna be a lot fun. Josh, thanks so much for joining me. I’m so excited to get to chat with you today.
Josh:
Well, what an intro Bonnie, thank you for that. That was awesome. I’m super, super excited to be here with you and your awesome brand and your awesome audience. Uh, you were on my podcast recently and we had such a good discussion. We hit it off right from the get go. So to be on your show is a total honor. So I’m excited, Jeff, and, and especially to talk about this idea of personalization, which has been one of the main key ingredients to growing my brand successfully over the past few years here.
Bonnie:
Mm. Well, I already can’t wait to get into that because that I’m already intrigued to, to know more, but, uh, before we dive into that part of today’s conversation, why don’t you share a little bit more about who you are and what you do and this incredible business and brand that you’ve built over the years?
Josh:
Yeah, it probably is worthwhile just giving you the quick summary of, of where I came from, because I think actually in the interview, uh, your interview on my show, you called yourself an accidental entrepreneur. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. If I remember correctly and I completely relate to that as I’m sure most everyone listening can as well, I was actually a cabinet maker by day working for a tour bus customizing shop here in Columbus, Ohio. And I was by night, I was a drummer in a rock band and we were traveling all over. And my design career actually started when I got laid off as a cabinet maker. And then, because I was doing design work and I always liked art. I, I decided I was gonna just dive into Photoshop. And so I resonate, you know, really strongly with your audience because I came from a grad ethic design and print design background, and I just did it as a hobby.
Josh:
And I was creating our t-shirt artwork and band artwork. And then the light bulb moment for me happened when we were playing a show and a band came up to us and asked, who did our artwork? And I said, well, I do. And then they asked me, how much would I charge to do their art work? And it was like this light bulb moment. That was the beginning of this career. So I did graphic design work for bands. And then eventually I, I started doing design work for actual businesses. And then I got into web design. Uh, it was just pretty natural. A lot of people, I was doing design work for needed help with website stuff. And I was at the time involved with the church and they were like, Hey Joe, gosh, we don’t have anyone doing our website. You wanna do it. We’ll pay for a couple community classes in our community college that will teach you some stuff. And I, that’s how I got into web design. Then it just spiraled from there.
Bonnie:
That’s amazing. I love, I always love getting to hear these stories about how people, uh, started doing what they’re doing. And it’s always so cool when it’s something that, uh, an opportunity presented itself or something someone asked, Hey, can I hire you to do this? And it’s this, it’s, it’s those little opportunities that pop up that often when we look back, we can kind of see how there was some guidance towards where we are now or how, how we got to where we are today. But in the moment, you know, it’s just kind of this opportunity to say, oh yeah, I mean, if you wanna pay me to do this, I can do it. And it’s so cool to see that, uh, so many of us, especially those of us who identify as, uh, accidental entrepreneurs can resonate with those sorts of stories.
Josh:
Yeah. And opportunity is interesting because I feel like there’s opportunities that you look back on and you’re like, wow, that was actually really big turning point mm-hmm <affirmative>, but you don’t realize it at the time, but then there are opportunities where you realize when they happen that like, wow, this could be big, or this is a big kind of thing. And I did have several of those as I got more and more experienced as a web designer when I started my brand right now at Josh hall dot co-teaching that actually mainly started because I started blogging for elegant themes, which is the company behind my favorite WordPress them divvy mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I just found out by a long shot that the content manager of the company lived in Columbus, Ohio. And I, I found that out through a Facebook group back in the day when, like you would post in a Facebook group and it would share your location.
Josh:
Yes. <laugh> uh, I was like, holy cow, he’s in Columbus. So I just reached out to him and I said, Hey man, I’m in Columbus as well. Uh, I’m a divvy guy. I’m a divvy designer. I’ve been building my business for like seven years. At that point. I’d love to at coffee and just talk shop. And when I shared with him my business model, he reached back out like a week later and asked if I would be interested in contributing to their blog. Mm. Because I had a lot of perspective being in the industry that they were looking for. So that’s kind of how it all started for me as far as teaching, but it was interesting that opportunity when he reached out and asked a of, I wanted to be a part of their blog, which at the time, and still is like millions of readers. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I was like, holy cow, this is really cool. So kind of a, an interesting tangent from the get go, but opportunity is interesting. Sometimes it’s like a big opportunity, you know, you should capitalize on and sometimes you look back and be like, wow, that was actually a pretty interesting time.
Bonnie:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I could obviously sit here and, and talk about the, the nuance and all the incredible things that happened through your journey. Um, just because honestly, I find, I find these stories so fascinating, but one thing that you said earlier was, uh, actually about what we’re talking about today, person, and you said that you, you found that the way that you use personalization in your business has been a major contributing factor to the brand that you’ve grown. So, um, knowing a little bit about how you got started and what that journey initially looked like, how does personalization show up for you? When does that start to be something that you’re aware of and that you are thinking about on your journey?
Josh:
Well, it’s easy for me now to say how important personalization is because I have a personal brand mm-hmm <affirmative> so my website is Josh hall.co. So there’s no ambiguity or mystery, but you with who’s behind the brand, same for you. Bonnie B is for Bonnie. It, Bonnie is probably the person behind that. So it’s easier for me to say that it’s, you know, obviously crucial for me now, but I will say as a web design agency owner, and as a freelancer, it was just as important for me then. And my business name at the time was called transit studios. I created this brand, this name, which was actually based off of my band’s third album. It was called in transit. Oh, awesome. And that’s when I started my business. So I was like, that sounds like a cool name. The domain’s available. That’ll be my business name.
Josh:
Um, but it was still really important to personalize the person and the owner behind the brand. So when I was a freelance design, most of my clients just knew me as Josh. I mean, honestly, half my clients didn’t even know my, my business name. They just knew Josh, my web guy. But as I started scaling my agency and as it really became a legit business into the six figure range, I had to come up with ways to keep it personal, because the most important thing I’ve realized in sales nowadays in particular, is that people wanna know like, and trust who they work with. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it is more important now than ever. And I’m sure everyone’s heard that over and over and over and over and over again, know and trust, but it’s true. It, when it comes to personalization and working with people nowadays, they want to feel comfortable with who they’re working with. They wanna know them, they wanna know what they know, what they’re interested in. They wanna like them, people wanna like who they work with and they wanna trust somebody and every area of, of trust when it comes to design services in particular. So, um, what I do now, and as an agency owner, the no like, and trust factor with, you know, personalizing every area of my business, that was absolutely key.
Bonnie:
One thing that I find really interesting about what you shared of how now that you’re at this point in your business, where you’re at the, you know, six figure range or growing from there, you have have this agency, you know, being creative and thinking of ways to still bring that personalization into that overall brand presence. So, you know, although you have an agency, you have people who are helping you with the incredible work that you’re doing. Um, you’re still able to create that, that connection, give people the opportunity to know who they’re dealing with, who they’re investing in, in terms of also the education side of things they know who is gonna be their coach and their guide through your courses or your one on one offers. But for those who are tuning in who aren’t quite at that point yet, where maybe, maybe they do have the dream of growing an agency in the future, but maybe right now, they’re still in that freelance stage of things. What are some ways that personalization can show up? If someone isn’t maybe, maybe they feel more introverted, maybe they don’t love the idea of being like the face of their brand and having maybe their name front and center are still ways that they can think about bringing personalization into, uh, their overall brand presence and persona. So they can create that like no trust factor with people.
Josh:
Yeah. You definitely do not need to have a personal branded company name. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like if, you know, if, if Susan is listening and she’s the freelance web designer, she’s a solo printer. Her business doesn’t have to be, you know, Susan design.com. It can be whatever the, the company name is, but personalization will come when you’re a freelancer, whether you like it or not, because you you’re doing everything, you are the salesperson, you are HR, you are the project manager. You are the designer, you are the client services person. You are doing all the things. So personalization will come a little easier because you’re, you’re likely the main contact you’re gonna be doing the sales. Then you’re gonna be doing the project, working with the client. So they’re gonna know you. And again, they’re probably gonna forget Susan’s business name. They’re just gonna know Susan <laugh>.
Josh:
So I found it to be much trickier as far as personalization. When I personally went from me to we and I did, I didn’t, I wanna say too, I did not scale a big, massive digital agency. That was never my style. That was never my goal. I just had a few subcontractors working with me, but I learned how powerful it was that clients knew who they were working with. And they felt comfortable with me that I wanted to keep that personalization and that, um, that personal touch, even as a, as a scaling agency. So I’m happy to talk about some tips that I did and help as I scale, but for the freelancers and solopreneurs, who are likely, you know, a lot, your audience, Bonnie, uh, personalization, whether it’s your brand name or whether it’s under a company name, it’s, it’s gonna come either way.
Josh:
Uh, and I would just say, do not be afraid to put yourself on your website. And I, I just want to kind of give some encouragement and just, uh, a push to actually do that, to not hide behind your brand because clients wanna know who the heck they’re working with. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like if I go to this website as a client, if there is no mention of who is behind this brand, I don’t know, is it one person in their parents’ basement or is it a agency of 25 people that has payroll? Like, it is so important I, to note who is behind the brand, and if it’s just, you don’t be shy or afraid about that because a lot of people actually just wanna work with. So, um, so that’s just my encouragement. And again, I’m happy to talk about the personalization, you know, freelancer versus scaling, if you want Bonnie or whatever you think would be good to, to dive into. Yeah,
Bonnie:
Absolutely. Actually, let’s, let’s go for that. Because when I think back to conversations that I’ve had recently with some of the designers inside my free Facebook community, quite a few of them are in that season of business where they’re starting to bring on a VA or they’re bringing on a, like a junior designer or someone who can help them, uh, kind of fulfill the project upwards that they are taking on. So I I’d love to hear how you navigated that journey, that kind of process that switch from just being a solopreneur to then, like you said, that, that you to we, how did that go for you?
Josh:
Yeah, media, we is very, it it’s very tricky and I felt very overwhelmed and daunted by that, particularly because for around seven years, it was just me and my business aside from hiring out a few things here or there, but clients never knew about that. It was always me who they’ve reported to. So the idea of scaling and having some actual team members who were doing a lot of the project and then eventually talking with clients, I really did have to, to work through a lot of hurdles with that. But one thing I realized is that no matter what the, the case was, I was never gonna be this digital agency that treated clients like numbers mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I knew I was gonna be more than a freelancer or more than a solo printer, which is kind of the, the newer term. And I was not going to be a typical agency that was gonna churn and burn clients and treat you like a number on a spreadsheet.
Josh:
So, one thing I did practically is I literally created a, a graphic on my homepage that like, literally map this out. And I took a picture of me and I did an outline of it. And then I had like a little, a little graphic that said, we’re not a freelancer. Like, I’m not an overwhelmed freelancer who can’t keep up with projects, but we’re also not an agency. That’s gonna treat you like a number we’re right in the middle. It’s me, Josh. I’m your primary contact creative director. And here’s the small team. And then I actually created a page with the subcontractors who were my team. Now I, this is a trick. This is a big one for, for folks in this point, because you might wonder how do I create a team page if they’re not an actual employee, what I did. And a lot of my students are doing right now, if they’re in this position to have a team page that just is super transparent and real with who is gonna be working on the projects.
Josh:
And I had team members who collaborated frequently, and then I had some that just collaborated when needed. And that’s exactly what I said on the team page. I had like two designers who were frequent. And then I had like four designers who were like occasionally if needed, who had like special skills. So that’s practically how I kept my scaling business, you know, personal. So they still knew when they went to in transit studios, there was no ambiguity of what this company was. It was Josh and a small team. Here’s the small team. We’re not a freelancer, but we’re not a big agency. And that was just a game changer for me as I scaled. Mm.
Bonnie:
I love that. And the way that you were talking about how you have that team page set up, it just reminds me of kind of like those, those org charts that, you know, a lot of us, when we reach a certain point in business, we like sit down and we like get creative and we think about, okay, what is actually the, the structure of my business? What does that look like? And who’s doing what, and who do I need to, you know, hire to fill these, these gaps or to, you know, branch into these new offers. And I imagine that having that information first internally defined, made, creating that team page so much easier and helped you know exactly who you wanted, your potential clients and your current clients to be aware of and how they were fitting into the client work that y’all were doing. Right.
Josh:
It’s a great point, Bonnie. Yeah. Typically, and this is something I recommend in my, I have a business course for web design. And one thing I say in there is even if it’s just, you, you have to put all of the main roles in your business in some sort of chart, and you have to put your image in all the roles at the beginning. Mm-hmm <affirmative> cause you’re, again, you’re doing everything. You’re the salesperson, you’re HR, you’re the designer, you’re the project manager, et cetera. And then eventually, ideally if you’re going to grow your business, which most people get to a point where they’re just overwhelmed and you realize I cannot do it on my own mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I know we’re not talking scaling in this episode, so I’ll keep this to a minimum, but you, it is a good place to start because then when you do start to bring on people, you know, what roles you’re good at and what you wanna focus on.
Josh:
And then yeah, when you make a team page, you can just fill in those slots. And again, just be really real and, and transparent with who’s behind the business and how often they’re working. Are they full-time, are they part-time? Are they, I like to say just collaborates frequently mm-hmm <affirmative> or when needed. And then that helped me too, because when I was scaling and I was only to doing sales and proposals, at one point, what I told clients was I’ll be with you to, to get the strategy in place. And then Jonathan, my lead designer at the time he’ll take over from there. And then I come back when the project is done and then we do the offboarding together. So that’s essentially, and I made it very clear. That’s the exact and personalizing who they’re gonna work with at what stage is another really big tip.
Josh:
If you’re gonna have a small team, even remotely, that way, people again know who they work with because I, I saw this on the opposite end when I did some, um, contract work for a local digital media company here in Columbus. At one point I was just building websites for them, just kind of on the side. And I saw how they did this. And it wa I don’t think they intentionally meant to do this, but they would onboard clients. And the clients thought that the salesperson was gonna be like their main contact through the entire process. And then suddenly the salesperson’s gone once the project started, there’s this new person. They didn’t know them. They didn’t know, like, and trust them mm-hmm <affirmative> and suddenly they were their contact, but they didn’t really expect that. So that’s a really, really important example of what not to do, like make it really clear. Who’s involved in all the, all the steps of the journey and, and it’ll go a long way.
Bonnie:
Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, that’s such a good point. And I think that also kind of brings up the point of whether, for those who are tuning in today, whether you are at a point in your business where you want to bring on some help, whether that’s through some subcontractors, an actual part-time or full-time employee, whatever that looks like. If you are at that point where you’re thinking about how you need to bring on that help, to experience, support that you need to pursue what success looks like to you in this specific season. I think that it’s important to remember that you get to decide how visible you are throughout that process. And of course, like, I know that we said we weren’t gonna get too much into what it looks like to scale through bringing on a team, but just to kind of make that distinction of when you are growing a team, when you’re bringing in that kind of support, it depends on what you’re comfortable with. So if you love, if you love being the point of contact with your clients, and that is not something that you wanna give up, you do not need to feel any pressure to
Josh:
Exactly.
Bonnie:
Just, just do sales or just do the strategy and then hand it over to like your VA or your assistant or your junior designer or whoever. And I think that it’s just important to remember that there are a lot of fantastic educators and experts out there who are ready and willing to, to show you, or to give you the guidance about how to structure your team. But I think it’s important to remember, and this also goes for personalization for anything you do in your design business, don’t forget that you get to decide what serves you well in your current season. So I love that we’re exploring in this conversation today, these different ways to grow. And I just wanna, you know, bring, bring back to this idea that, uh, giving yourself that permission and getting really comfortable with, with you, having the authority in your business to decide what it looks like and how you are scaling, if, and when you choose to do so. Uh, so that always pursuing something that feels, feels good and serves you well.
Josh:
Yeah. Especially for most designers, your business is your baby. It’s gonna feel personal, which is good. Like your clients are gonna be your, your clients. It’s a personal thing. One of my students is just going through this now. And I just heard from her last week. And she said that she can’t believe she didn’t start scaling soon. Her and she’s, she’s really enjoying it. She had the same reservations. She was like, I’m, I’m the gal for all my clients. They know me. And I told her, when you scale, you don’t have to disappear from your clients. Your clients don’t even need to meet your team yet. Like your team can do work and report to you. And then you report to your clients still very personal. And if, and only when you feel comfortable, then you can give your team the reins to dive into the communication side of things. So it’s a great point, Bonnie, when it comes to personalization, because I think a lot of people feel like if you’re gonna scale at any level, whether it’s a couple subcontractors or like a legit digital agency that suddenly you as the CEO or creative director are not gonna be, you know, personal mm-hmm, <affirmative>, uh, that’s not the case. You can literally set up your business. Like you said, however, the heck you want, which is really, really cool.
Bonnie:
Something that, uh, just kind of came to mind when you were saying that is also when you are, what, no matter what stage you in your business, whether it’s just you and your cat or it’s you and this incredible team of folks, uh, locally,
Josh:
Or, or two or two golden retrievers.
Bonnie:
Yes. And our case,
Josh:
Like both of
Bonnie:
Us fun fact for those who are tuning in Josh and I both, we, we discover this during my interview on his podcast, I have two golden energy and he has two golden achievers. <laugh>
Josh:
It’s true. If we, if we had a, a, a puppy play date, there would be so much fluff. We wouldn’t know what to do. Oh
Bonnie:
My gosh. I mean, honestly, staying on top of all the fur in my house is like a full-time job in and of itself. So I’m sure you can relate <laugh>
Josh:
Yes, terribly. So,
Bonnie:
But, but, you know, regardless of, of what your current business structure looks like, how many people are a part of, of your team, whether you’re a team of one, or, you know, a team of however, many, you, as the founder of this company, have this really exciting opportunity to think about the kind of culture that you wanna create, the kind of values that you want to embody and the way you’re treating your clients, or the way that you’re showing up for the work that you’re doing, the way that you’re marketing yourself. And when you BR, when you do eventually, if you do eventually decide to bring on an assistant or, or, um, you know, other designers or copywriters or people who can help you with the actual fulfillment of the client work that you’re doing one really cool thing about that is by knowing that kind of culture, by having those values clearly defined. And by embodying those values, when you invite people to step into this business with you, you get to share that with them. And that I feel is a really powerful way to personalize how your business, especially once it gets to that point where it’s bigger than just you, but how your business is showing up.
Josh:
I have to interject my favorite tip for being a founder, if you have a team, but still relaying that to clients as well, because the, the difficult thing could happen where your VI, your vision, your mission are in, are in place. And then you often just tell your team, well, you don’t wanna neglect your clients and your, your future clients. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, with keeping personal personalization going with that. So what my favorite little trick on this regard is to create what’s called you could call it anything, but I like to call it a founder’s note on your homepage. And that is even if you never talk to a new client, they still get to know the owner or the founder, the creative director of the business. And it’s just a little founder’s note on your homepage, which is just like, Hey, I’m Josh, I’m the founder of this digital age agency.
Josh:
You know, this is my background, and this is why we started, this is our mission. This is our vision. And my me and my team are here to serve you whatever it is, and that can lead into a team page or an about page. But that idea of a founder’s note, if, particularly, if you’re scaling with a team is so, so important, and one of the easiest things to do to keep it personal and keep it real that way they, they know, you know, the leader, they know who is, is behind the brand and who founded it.
Bonnie:
Hmm. I love that. That’s such a good, such a good, uh, tip. I really appreciate you sharing that. And speaking of tips, speaking of advice, one question that I always love to ask during every conversation here on the podcast, kind of circle back to this idea of, um, one final piece of advice of encouragement. So I know we’ve been talking a lot today about ways to show up and how you’re personalizing your business, whether it’s just you or you’re choosing to grow a team, but for those who are tuning in today, who this idea of thinking about how to leverage more personalization, maybe this is a newer idea. Maybe this is something that they have been doing it naturally kind of organically, but haven’t put a lot of thought into it. What kind of advice would you wanna leave them? So that moving forward, they have some idea of how they can implement more personalization in the way they choose to show up in their businesses.
Josh:
Well, I can’t believe it’s taken over 26 minutes to talk about this, but my absolute number one, number one, number one tip is personal videos. And I probably some people just, you know, shivered and, and got a little scared thinking about being on camera. But let me challenge you with this. You are going to be talking to clients either way, especially as a, so printer, you’re doing the sales. You’re gonna be meeting with people. You’re gonna be doing sales calls, just do personal videos, as much as you can throughout the process, especially if you’re at a place where you don’t have that many clients, and you can manage this. I often recommend doing personal videos. Well, you’ll likely do like a discovery call mm-hmm <affirmative> or some sort of strategy session. You’re gonna be meeting with somebody, but if you follow it up with a personal video, when you, for example, example, send a proposal that has been one of the biggest converters for a lot of my students with their proposals, because let’s say for example, you’re gonna be doing a branding package and a basic website design, maybe it’s five, $10,000.
Josh:
It’s a bit, it’s a big investment for some companies. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, they’ll probably get a few other quotes. Now. I guarantee you maybe one other, but probably no other companies are gonna send a personal video along with the proposal that walks them through it. And is you could just use like loom or whatever tool you want to use to just give a quick five, 10 minute personal video along with the proposal. No one else will do that. If you do that, you will stand out from the competi immediately. And clients will even more feel that no, like, and trust factor. And then you can use personal videos throughout the process, whether it’s onboarding or whether it’s like revision time or especially offboarding. If you could just send a quick video, giving them some ideas to help them, you know, showcase their new brand or launch their new site.
Josh:
Um, personalization through a personal video is my absolute number one recommendation. And me personally, uh, with my business model right now, as a course creator, you might wonder, well, you’re not doing personal videos now, right? As a course creator, I’ve got 1200 plus students wrong. I do send out personal video is, and I do it with new students when they join a course. So at my level, right now, I can still maintain that. Um, you know, if I had thousands and tens of thousands of students, I probably wouldn’t be able to do personal videos, but right now I can. So generally every week, usually on Fridays, but I typically get 10 to 20 new students a week on average, some less, sometimes more. And I will go, I will bulk record little 32nd to 45 second intros. So if you joined a course, for example, Bonnie, I would say, Hey, Bonnie just wanted to say welcome to the business course.
Josh:
So great to have you in here. I will love to hear more about you and your business. If you wanna reply back or send me a quick video, I want to get to know you and your business and give you some tips to get the most out of the course. And I’m really excited to be a part of your design journey. Oh, and by the way, you get a student discount because you’re a current student and then it would be something like that, that, and my business model now, like, I can’t even tell you how that, well, number one limited refunds, because people are like, they’re shocked that I actually sent them a video and it has just made students for life and like raving fans, because they’re like, I can’t believe you, you spent time and sent me this video, but the reality, it took me 45 seconds. And then I have an email temp, but that I just popped their name in. Um, so personal videos, personal video can’t recommend that enough.
Bonnie:
Mm. I love that. That is such a fantastic way to implement showing up. And just being that, that real, that approachable, that professional person, that whether it’s with students, whether it’s with your clients, that they can feel that connection with you. I, and, uh, I really appreciate how you walked through those specific ways that we can, especially for designers who are working one on one with clients where those videos make sense as a part of their client experience. Um, really, you know, based on what we’ve been talking about today, really, I feel like in my mind, it keeps coming. I keep coming back to this idea, the, at personalization, there are some fantastic practical ways that you can weave that throughout your business and your client experience. But it sounds like to me, there’s a lot of creativity in this, right? There’s a lot of ways that people can personalize the out of personalization and the specific ways they’re showing up in their businesses. Would you agree?
Josh:
Oh, totally. And the cool thing about personalization is it does not mean you need to get like a big fancy microphone and lights and you need to be in a studio. It can be on your phone while you’re, you know, like for me, I’ve sent videos to students while my wife is in target and I’m in the car with my girl. I have two, I have a three year old and a two year old, I’ll be in the car and I’ll just be like, Hey, just wanted to say welcome to the course, you know? But like, people love that cause it’s real and it’s authentic. You could do it while you’re walking your golden retrievers in the park or whatever, you know, like you can be real and do that. And I actually, it’s funny. I, I used to have a client that was a photographer and she hired her own photographer for her wedding.
Josh:
And that company did a personal video for her when they signed on. Cause I’m sure that was like a five or $10,000. I mean, they were like a legit photography studio. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but they sent her like a group. It was all like four of them, it on a phone in their lounge. And they were just like, Hey, we just wanted to say, we’re so excited to start working with you. Next steps are coming. But we just wanted to pop in and say, we’re so excited. Really can’t wait to, to be alongside doing your special day. And I remember her telling me like that just meant the world to her. And, and that’s one of the things that prompted me to do this more like I’d started doing personal videos, which are a lot easier to do when you work with less number of clients. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> like you can get personal all throughout the process. And the thing is, the reason I’m really harping on this is because no one is doing it or at least very, very few people are doing it. So you listening have a as edge on your competition. If you send a quick personal video in front of target or in front of a dog park, whatever, wherever it is, it really does. It just goes so far.
Bonnie:
Wow. I love that advice. Now I know that you said that video has been such a really powerful way for you to incorporate personalization in your brand. Are the there other kind of practical ways that you have brought personalization into your brand, um, that you think would be useful for other folks to consider implementing in their brands?
Josh:
Yeah. I mean, video is definitely the biggest one, like the most impactful, but I will say I have learned that and I’ve seen this in my analytics with like website traffic, people love a good story. And people, honestly, particularly if they’re gonna work with a person or a freelancer, they wanna know like, you know, where’d you come from? What did you do? Especially if you do have an interesting story, which most designers do, there’s not many website designers who went to a four year degree and then started bill in their web design agency. It’s it’s usually like I was in a band and I got laid off or something like that. So if you have a story by golly, share that like one. So my about page was I think the fourth, most popular page on my agency site, which was really interesting. People wanted to know the founder and same thing for me with my personal brand.
Josh:
Now I kind of have like a story style approach to my journey and I, I I’m continually revamping it, but it’s kinda like a timeline. Like I share a little bit what I share today about my origin story. And every couple years I put information in there about where I’ve come from and how the business has grown and, and that, that page gets a lot of traffic. So that would be another recommendation would be to not be afraid of your story and put it out there. It doesn’t need to be a novel, but it could be, you know, like timeline or just interesting aspects of, of your journey that a client might resonate with. So like the golden retriever thing, for example, Bonnie, a lot of people would probably not put a picture of them and their dogs. Well, maybe more so now that’s kind of a fun thing to do, but, um, 10 years ago, you’d probably never see that.
Josh:
Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so for me, actually, I kind of forgot about this, but on my team page of my agency, Daisy Lou, my oldest golden retriever, she was head of customer relations. Oh. And on my team page and clients freaking love that. I got so many compliments about her little <laugh>. What was extra funny is when you searched in transit online, her face was the first one to pop up for a while because so many people clicked on it. That’s excellent. <laugh> so Google knew go, Google knew. Um, so anyway, don’t recommend that from an SEO perspective, but people love loved it. And so it’d be like me. I was the grave director, my wife did admin work for a while, Jonathan, a couple others. And then Daisy Lou was head of customer relations. But I said, she’s often unreliable. She’s often been found, caught sleeping. Um, so, but people loved it. So like you can really personalize and be quirky or be you, you know, luckily now more than ever mm-hmm <affirmative> because it’s, it really does go a long way than being stiff and rigid and you know, wearing a suit and you know, who knows who’s behind this brand, those days are over. Mm.
Bonnie:
Thankfully. Yes. I love
Josh:
That. Yes. Thank God. Thank God. Yes.
Bonnie:
Um, and I can, I can completely like relate in my own way to how your dogs were a part of, of that brand and a part of the way that you were inviting potential clients to get to know you and to get to know the team. And my dogs are definitely on my, about me page and I get, uh, messages from people or when I get, um, inquiries from new leads, my favorite ones are the ones where people are like, oh, and I saw that you have Goldens, I have a golden retriever or, um, you know, my family, I grew up with always having Goldens. And, you know, you, you don’t think that something as a seemingly like random as talking about what kind of pet you have <laugh> would be a connection point, but it absolutely is. And, you know, you can, for those who are listening, you can choose to share whatever you feel comfortable sharing. So it doesn’t have to be anything super personal. It could be, um, you know, uh, a favorite beverage, you have a favorite snack, a favorite activity that you like to do one of your hobbies, right? There’s lots of, lots of ways to be, create creative and have fun with it. And it’s, if anything, I find that it’s such a great feeling to be able to show up into those aspects of who I am and my own personality that I can use that as a way to connect with my clients.
Josh:
Yeah. And it doesn’t mean that like cat people, aren’t gonna work with you, Bonnie. It’s just, you have Goldens. Like it doesn’t, you know, you’re not like excluding other people who don’t have your interest, but there is no shame in putting your interests in, you know, very clearly like personalizing your site, whether it’s on a, with a founder’s note or you’re about page team page personalize that because it really does add a whole nother human an element to, to hear you’re working with. And I, what’s interesting about this now with my brand@joshhall.co, because I am a full-time web design coach. I do courses my community, my podcast and stuff. I’ve been much more vocal about being a hockey fan. And I can’t tell you how many people over the past, probably five or six months have come into my courses or my community. And they say, by the way, I’m a huge hockey fan too. Like, it really just adds that little personalization and human element. And I don’t think I’m intentionally attracting hockey fans, but the people who do watch hockey, it’s like another thing talk about. And it adds that other level of, you know, like trust and again, that, that kind of human element, which is really cool. And it goes a long way.
Bonnie:
Mm absolutely. It adds this kind of dimension to who you are as a person. So you’re not just like this, you know, kind of like flat, like, you know, there’s, there’s not much to you sort of coach other than like your, your expertise. It’s like, no, you, you have all this experience. You’re sharing this valuable content. You’re also this real living, breathing human. And yeah, that just, that just brings us back to that. No, like trust factor, where we want to connect with people and we want to work with people because, you know, at the end of the day, we’re people too. And we appreciate feeling that freedom to create, to whatever degree, a sense of community with those that we’re working with. Especially if it’s at a high level of investment, or if it’s through an ongoing relationship through like mentoring or coaching or a, you know, a year long access to a course or something like that.
Josh:
Yeah, totally. And, and like you said earlier, Bonnie, you, you can be, you can have discernment on what, how personal you want to get and what you wanna say. Like, you don’t have to say, I prefer briefs over Whitey tidies. You that doesn’t have to be in your about page, but I have golden retrievers awesome. Or like hockey, you know, like you can really, you have the freedom to share what you wanna share. This is also on a serious note important when you have a family. Like I have girl, I have two girls, so I am somewhat reserved on like how personal I’m gonna open up my life online because I have girls mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, but I am, I am very clear about like being a family man that I have a couple little ladies, you know, that this is my family, but I am somewhat reserved more so than I used to be with like how much I’m sharing. So again, discernment and figuring out, you know, how helping you wanna be and, you know, what do you feel comfortable sharing, but either way be you be human and be you on your website. It, it really, I can’t understate the, a value of that because it, it just continues to build that no, like, and trust factor.
Bonnie:
Absolutely. And also giving yourself the permission to change how much personalization or the specific ways that you’re personalizing things like you, you shared that with, with your girls, you are more intentional about what you share and maybe, maybe before they came along, you, I don’t know. Maybe you shared more openly about what you were doing day in and day out or, you know, on, on social media or something like that. But the beautiful thing about being in charge and running these businesses that we created is we get to choose how we kind of turn up the volume on some things, or maybe turn down the volume a bit based on where we are and what season of life we’re in. So, um, if you’re tuning into this today and you’re in the earlier stages of growing your design business and you choose share, uh, you know, a ton of who you are and your values and what matters to you and, um, your preferences and quirks and things like that. And then in a couple years you decide, oh, actually I want to, you know, kind of pull back on some of that because I am growing a team. And so I want for, you know, their voices and their stories to be a, a part of this, uh, overall persona a little bit more, you can absolutely do that. I think it’s just leaning on that discernment, like you were saying, Josh, like having that, that discernment of what works for you and what you feel comfortable with.
Josh:
Yeah. And you said an interesting point there too Bonnie, which was like, what season of life you’re in too? I don’t know of, I don’t know if you know this, but my first daughter Bria, my oldest. So she was born with some developmental delays and we spent two months in the NICU, the newborn intensive care unit when she was born. So when it came to personalization, I could not hide that from clients. And I could not hide that. Cuz I had started Josh tell.co then I think a lot of people were like, why did your YouTube video stop? So I, I, you know, I didn’t give everybody a daily update, but I made it very clear that we were not expecting this. I’m working either at the hospital or across the street at Panera, uh, where at the hospital all day, you know, this is, you know, just a little bit about what’s going on with my daughter.
Josh:
At that time, we had no idea how long we would be in the NICU. We didn’t know if it was two weeks or gonna be two years who knew. So I did kind of open up enough to, you know, I wasn’t taking them in the, in the, you know, pictures in the room or anything, but I just let people know what the situation was. And I was honestly a little worried about that with clients because I thought, well, who’s gonna like sign up for project or who’s gonna continue to pay me with the situation that we’re in. But I found that that human element resonated so well. And, and my clients at that time were super understanding and some even like paid in full to help us out. Wow. And I, I didn’t have any, any sort of like, you know, bad situation, uh, when it came to client, client work in that, but it it’s an interesting point too.
Josh:
It’s like when life happens, you know, how, how personal are you gonna get? And I do think, you know, a certain level of personalization is needed, particularly in that kind of situation. Like if I had hid that from my clients and they were wondering, why is this website design taken so long that, that would’ve been kind of messed up? I feel like, so, uh, just being honest, like, Hey, this is, this is, you know, it’s a personal situation. There’s, there’s probably discernment with that too, depending on the situation. But cuz you don’t want clients to think like, oh gosh, this person’s a hot mess. I don’t know if I trust them to get my website done. But in my case, that was a very different type of situation.
Bonnie:
Right. Right. And I actually can, um, I can resonate with having an experience like that, um, where you have to use that discernment to think about what am I gonna share, but also honoring the fact of, you know, my family and I are in season of life. I’m human. I want to invite people into this to a certain degree. So they know where I’m coming from. And so we can kind of meet each other as, as people because right. We’re not machines, we’re not these big faceless brands that have, you know, like hundreds of employees that are helping us do this work. It’s in a lot of cases it’s it’s us or handful of people.
Josh:
And again, again, I just wanna stress, like there is some discernment with this because if you’re like, I got kind of a drug problem, I’m getting off this and I’m getting divorced. Like, I don’t know if I would say that to a client, but you know, like on certain situations, if life is happening, then you know, most clients are gonna understand, you do have still get the work done. You gotta figure that out. But um, yeah, I didn’t think we’d go here, but it is an interesting point when it comes to, you know, personalization throughout the process of working with somebody.
Bonnie:
Right. And I think that, you know, because of the pandemic and the way that life has changed for so many of us over the last couple of years, I think that we collectively, at least what I am hearing from people and what I am seeing from people is that there is people are willing to give you a lot of grace and people are willing to meet you where you are, if you are able to communicate honestly, and just, you know, communicate what you can do and the expectations of, you know, here’s what I can do. Here’s the timeline that works for me, that kind of thing. So in keeping personalization in mind with that, I agree you do not owe anyone, your life story. You do not need to share anything more than you’re comfortable with you as a human get to decide what your boundaries are and you are always able to honor them, whatever they look like to you.
Josh:
Yeah. Here’s the worst thing you can do, right? Is to not say anything and disappear. Mm-hmm <affirmative> which listen, graphic designers, I’m talking to you stop being so shady and stop F flaking out. I found, I don’t know why, again, I’m, I’m almost only, only half kidding with this because I have seen a massive problem with graphic designers in particular. I think it’s the creative and the artist artists in us where the reason I was able to build my business and go fulltime as a graphic and web designers is because I actually showed up and I actually came to meetings on time and got word work done for whatever reason, the artist’s side struggles with communication and personalization can be a big part of that. And I worked with some graphic designers that just disappeared on me. And I’m like, this project is due. Like what’s I haven’t heard from them.
Josh:
And then they would, you know, reappear two weeks later and they’d be like, oh, sorry. I was just going through some stuff. I’m like, listen, I, it would’ve been fine if you would’ve just told me, Hey, I’m going through some stuff. I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to hit this deadline. I would’ve got that project to somebody else. We would’ve handled it. I would’ve respected you 10 times more. You know, like just that’s the worst thing you can do is to just flake and disappear because you’re afraid to just be honest about what’s going on. So another important note, a note that bear, I think bear is talking about when it comes to the personalization, you know, with client work and stuff.
Bonnie:
Yeah. That is so interesting. I, um, I think that when we are able to get, give ourselves the permission to communicate with our clients and to remember that like communication is absolutely a two way street and that while we want for them to communicate with us and to say, Hey, I’m running behind on these approvals. I’m not able to give you my feedback just yet. I need an extra couple of days or, Hey, I know that you plan, I’m giving me this, this presentation, but I’m actually gonna be traveling. So can we adjust our timeline like right. We want that kind of feedback and that kind of communication from our clients. And, but we also, as designers, we have the opportunity to communicate accordingly with our clients.
Josh:
That’s a great point. That is a, a 0.1, one thing I, I recommend doing to no matter, you know, what type of services you’re doing is ideally a weekly update when a project is going, even if you’re not actually doing any work over two or three weeks, if it’s like a waiting period of you, you’re backed up with other projects and one sitting there every week, just go through aren’t client roster and talking about personalization. You don’t even have to send a video, just send a quick email, just saying like, Hey, we’re working on stuff. Here’s where the project’s at. That’s it just give them some sort of update, even if it’s a non notification update, just say like, Hey, we’re working on your project. We’re at this stage right now. That’s all they need. That is all they need. And then that will make them feel awesome. And it will just contribute to this wonderful idea and topic of personalization throughout the project.
Bonnie:
Absolutely. I love that. Such a practical way to also ensure you’re not getting a bunch of little emails popping up in your inbox from clients who haven’t heard from you in a minute, wondering, Hey, what’s happening? Where are you? What’s going
Josh:
That the worst thing, the worst thing. And I know we’ve all been through this or currently going through this where a, a client will reach out and say, Hey, how are things going? I haven’t heard from you a while. Where, where are things at you never want to get to that point, which is why generally a week. Even if you, again, it can be super quick, like, Hey client, just letting you we’re at this point right now, I’ll hit you back by the end of next week with an update that’s it could take, but what was that? Four or five seconds, six seconds. You’re good to go.
Bonnie:
Right. Um, and that kind of makes me think about how obviously, if you’re building those kinds of personalized communication touchpoints throughout your client experience, you’re probably gonna wanna have some email templates, some kind of canned emails that you’re using to take the active time out of that equation. So you’re not having to sit there in from script, you know, write these emails and send them to every client you’re working with. So, you know, we’re talking about personalization. Don’t don’t think that just because you use things like automations or workflows or canned, uh, you know, email templates or any sort of template, don’t think that just because it’s a template personalization, can’t be a part of it. Absolutely. You can personalize those things. You’re sending to people. The the point of, of thinking about having some, uh, email templates that you’re using to communicate is to cut down on the amount of time it’s taking you to do that. And also to ensure that you are not having to reinvent the wheel every single time you’re sitting down and, and writing those emails. So you can offer each client a very consistent experie. But within those, I like to think of those templates as kind of like these, um, these parameters that then give me a ton of space to flourish. And I can personalize that to like, honestly, till the cows come home, I can just focus on, on adding how much personalization I want to, or I choose to. Uh,
Josh:
So well said. So don’t,
Bonnie:
Don’t forget about that.
Josh:
Well, and I love that you said when the cows come home, since you’re, I know you’re in Waco, uh, well said though, Bonnie, and here’s the thing here’s like the, the myth I wanna bust personalization does not mean way more like personal time and what, you know, like extra time that you don’t have, in fact personalization will lead to the opposite. The more per personal you get. And when you send videos, particularly for like revisions and proposals, you will get less questions. For example, when I, at the height of doing websites, I would always just send a client a link and say, let me know what you think mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it’s probably not a shocker that I would get a massive response with a bunch of revisions and a bunch of questions. And they’d want a call. What I learned to do is because on some projects I would meet with clients like at a coffee shop.
Josh:
And I found that when I had a chance to like walk them through the design, they had way less questions, way less revisions. And they just trusted me to finish the design mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so a Dawn on me, like they, duh, send a loom video walkthrough of the new design, walking them through the design. They don’t have a chance to give me their thoughts yet until they finish watching this and that right there, Bonnie, as a web designer, eliminated so much back and forth for me, saved me so much time. I just sent them a video walkthrough and gave them a chance to hear my reasonings as to why this looks the way they do. So it saved me so much time. Mm-hmm <affirmative> same thing. Like you mentioned, with templates and automations and workflows, I set up a workflow at one point that had the proposal.
Josh:
And then once somebody signed that it kicked them over to the contract then to the invoice. Then once they paid, then it kicked them over to my welcome, like my onboarding email. And I did all that through a platform called 17 hats, which I still use today. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the question is, okay, Josh, that’s all automated and templatized. How you can’t personalize that. No, you tell Lee can, what I did was just what you said, Bonnie. I just personalized, personalized, like parts of it. So with the proposal, I did the little proposal video, maybe five minutes walking them through and then changed the details that were specific to their project contract with generally never change. And then when they’re getting started email, I would follow up with a personal video saying, Hey, welcome. I’m so excited to start working with you. You just got an email with next steps, watch, you know, go through that and then we’ll be off and running. So I was able to just interject the personalization techniques that we’ve talked about so far into the automated templates, and then boom, it’s a win-win win. Client loves you. They feel taken care of. They feel supported and powered. They, they get to know you like you and trust you. You just saved a bunch of time. You look different than your competition. You’re getting paid quicker. The project’s going better. You’re happier. Now you can spend more time with your Goldens or go to target. So we’ve been talking about that. It’s a win
Bonnie:
Dream, right? <laugh>
Josh:
That is the dream
Bonnie:
<laugh>, uh, I love how, you know, thinking about how all of those pieces can come together in order to bring us back to what the point is. And the point is having a design business that gives you the freedom to live the life that you want to. And man, we can honestly sit here and just like talk all afternoon <laugh> but we’ve covered so much incredible ground during today’s conversation. And I know that those who are tuning in are gonna want to be able to connect with you, follow along with the work that you’re doing, uh, learn more about your courses and your coaching. So where can folks find you online?
Josh:
Sure. You can go to my website@joshhall.co that’s, where I have all my stuff with my podcast courses, tutorials, all the things. So whatever, you know, peaks your interest or intrigues to there, you can go there and see what resources will, will work out for you. In fact, uh, if anyone is interested in any of my courses or anything that our premium and go to Josh hall.co/bonnie, and there’ll be a little, uh, a something, something there for you <laugh> if you, if you would like to check that out. But I, I mean, 95% of my content is free. So feel free. And I will say too, uh, Bonnie, your interview on my podcast will be@joshhall.co slash 180. If anyone wants to hear about busting the six figure mindset, let limits mm-hmm <affirmative>, which is an awesome chat I had with you. I agree. I feel like we could do like a good old three and a half hour chat at some point, which maybe we’ll have to make happen.
Bonnie:
I would love that. And I so appreciate you sharing, not only that resource link for where folks can go to learn more about, um, your courses and working with you, but also the link to our conversation on your podcast. That was such a great discussion. We had, gosh, we just really got into a lot of mindset specific, uh, topics. So for those who are tuning in, if that peaks your interest speech sure. To head on over and check that out. And as always, everything that we’ve talked about today, you can go over to brand strategy, podcast.com and click on the latest episode link. And you’re gonna find everything outlined in the show notes. So you can find, um, all of Josh’s details where you can connect with him, how you can work with him and more there. Josh, thank you so much for hanging out with me today for sharing your thoughts on personalization for talking about scaling. I mean, man, this is becoming a trend. Every time we hang out virtually, we get to talk about so many incredible things and I’m so grateful for you carving out the time to come and share your expertise with us on the brand strategy.
Josh:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me on your show, Bonnie. I definitely, yeah, I, I said it before I saw one of your presentations at a summit and I was like, I wanna chat with her cuz I like what you have to say. So we are definitely, uh, likeminded and a lot of these topics. So I definitely, I hope, you know, what we’ve learned in a we’ve experienced will, will help everyone listening. And I’m definitely excited for the next round.
Bonnie:
Mm absolutely. Well friends, thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. If something that Josh shared really resonated with you, or you found value with this, please be sure to connect with him and let him know your thoughts, be sure to cheer him on and incredible work that he’s doing. And if you found some wisdom or encouragement or advice in today’s episode that you know that your biz bestie could learn from, could appreciate be sure to pass this along so that together we can focus on helping our fellow designers just continue to grow a business that lines with their definition of success. So thanks again for tuning into this week’s episode and as always I’m cheering Y all on from Waco. Thank you so much for joining me today, friend, before you go, I would be so grateful to receive your feedback on the brand strategy podcast. If you enjoyed this episode or the podcast in general has helped you your brand I’d really appreciate it. If you left us a review in iTunes, your positive reviews enable the brand strategy podcast to continue to grow and reach like-minded creatives. Just like you. Thank you for all your support and encouragement as together. We pursue building brands with purpose and intention until next time and sharing you from Waco.
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