Episode 179 : How to Utilize Copywriting to Attract High-End Clients with Kayla Dean

June 9, 2021

Who is your website attracting to your brand? If you’re looking to attract a high-end clientele, it’s important to unite great messaging with website strategy and high conversion copywriting principles.

In this episode, Kayla Dean of The Literary Co joins us to discuss how your website copy can attract or turn off your ideal clients! Listen in as she shares four mistakes in copywriting for high-end clients, along with her thoughts on DIY copy versus done for you copy!

Copywriters aren’t just writing words, but working on developing a strategy for the words on a website.

Mistakes in Website Copywriting for High-End Clients

When we talk about copywriting for high-end clients, it’s important to really understand what you need to look for and avoid when writing your website copy. Below are common mistakes we see business owners do when writing copy for their website.

1. Not being completely sure what “high-end” means to you. It’s important to determine what you mean when you say you want to attract a high-end client, because this can mean something different to every business. Similarly to defining your own success, determine what that ideal client actually looks like.

2. Not balancing SEO and Conversion. Both SEO and conversion strategy have a place on a website, which is why it’s so important to incorporate both with balance. Throughout the website, you’ll want to think about how people will convert, but also how you’ll organically get them on the site via search engine optimization..

3. Being worried about longer copy. While being concise is key, don’t be afraid to go longer in your copy where it is warranted.

4. Trying to imitate influencers rather than focusing on what makes you unique. An influencer’s strategy is going to be very specific to them, rather than focusing on what you need.

Getting Dreamy About Your Brand

If you’re still stuck on how you’d define your high-end clients, do a journaling exercise: free write and get into the big picture ideas in your business. This gives you the opportunity to look back on what you’ve done, where you want to go, what you want to avoid, and just get dreamy about your business’ potential.

DIY vs. Done For You Copywriting

There is so much value in hiring a copywriting who can bring the strategy for search engine optimization and conversion. Whether you’re utilizing a website template or spending the money on a custom website, it’s important that the content you’re placing in the website is strategic and will sell your message to your potential clients.

That being said, if you don’t have the means to invest in a copywriter right now, there are definitely some wonderful courses and programs to help guide you. Even if you’re not getting full custom copy for your website, it’s important to understand and educate yourself on how to create that copy.

If you’re brand new to business and really just aren’t ready to invest in copywriting, that’s okay too. As long as you’re taking the time to think through your copy, it’s always something you can improve on or invest in later as well.

Catch the Show Notes

Get to Know Kayla (1:53)

4 Common Mistakes in Copywriting for High-End Clients (7:55)

Getting Dreamy About Your Brand (11:53)

DIY vs. Done for You Copy (14:10)

Encouragement for Copywriting (20:41)





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Bonnie Bakhtiari 0:07
Hi friends and welcome to the brand strategy podcast a show created to equip you with the inspiration, encouragement and clarity you need to build a brand of your dreams. I’m your host Bonnie bakhtiari re designer strategist and founder of Yulin retreat, from sustainable strategy to heartfelt encouragement. Each episode is designed to equip you with the tools you need to chase after your dreams. Because you deserve a brand that empowers you to do what you love, connects with your dream clients, and offers a deep sense of fulfillment along the way. So grab a cup of coffee and join me on this journey. Welcome.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 0:45
Friends Welcome back to the brand strategy podcast where today we are talking about how to utilize copywriting to attract high end clients with Kayla Dean. Kayla is an incredibly talented copywriter and strategist for creative brands. She works with creatives of all kinds, so photographers, designers, coaches, travel experts, stylist, so many incredible people. And her work has been featured in publications like bustle, create and cultivate and Darlene. She uses her expertise and her degree in English literature to help her clients connect with their dreamy high end clients. So they can do more of the work that they love doing and experience that fulfillment but also that profit along the way. So Kayla, thank you so much for coming on the show for joining me today. I’m so excited to get to chat with you.

Kayla Dean 1:36
I’m so excited to be here.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 1:38
Well, I always love getting to hear a little bit more about your story and the incredible work that you do. So if you’re up for it, I would love to know just a little bit more about who you are and what you do, and even how you got started if you want to go down that route.

Kayla Dean 1:53
Absolutely. So I’m a copywriter. I specialize in messaging, brand copywriting and website copywriting for creative entrepreneurs. Like you were saying in your lovely introduction, I’ve worked with a lot of different creatives. And you know, just so passionate about that. And I started my career writing, actually for local magazines and blogs. During grad school, I worked at a big literary magazine, I did a lot of like freelancing and internships and just really tried to get myself out there in the writing worlds. I majored in English, I have my bachelor’s and master’s degree in that. And so I was really trying to figure out like, what kind of writing that I want to do, what was my path going to be? How did I want to, you know, work with this skill. And I found copywriting after my education. And you know, I had heard about copywriting, I didn’t really know what it was. And then I discovered it really started immersing myself in it doing like professional development, working with clients and really started segwaying from you know, writing for magazines and doing more like articles and blogs and stuff like that, and content writing and doing a lot more copywriting and that is pretty much what I do all the time now. And you know, for the past three years, I have had my own copywriting studio, I started the literary code 2018. I rebranded officially last year, though change the name to the literary CO and that has been a really aligned change for me. And since I’ve started, I’ve worked with over 100 clients, and just absolutely love what I do.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 3:30
That’s so amazing. And I love hearing that this has been such an aligned move for you. And then it’s something that allows you to serve so many incredible people through copywriting because I know that and I’m sure you know this better than most. But I know that copywriting and getting our messages out there as creative entrepreneurs, it isn’t always something that we’re good at. And so I just have so much respect for the work that you do as a copywriter because you through your wordsmith array, you have this amazing impact in the way that entrepreneurs are able to get their message out to the right people, which directly impacts profit, and leads to connection and also allows people to do more what they love, right? Yeah, it’s

Kayla Dean 4:19
so exciting. I’ve seen so many of my clients, you know, go through this process of really discovering their message, and really nailing their copywriting and then seeing things really change in their business. I’ve had, you know, lots of clients work with me who, after they work with me, and they do a big rebrand and they launch, you know, they end up growing their income. They’re hiring people in their business, they’re, you know, presenting new services and going in new directions and it’s just a really exciting place to be I love where my clients are when they find me, because they’re at this kind of like pivot point, they’re ready to make a change. And it’s just so exciting to be on that journey with them.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 4:56
Oh my gosh, that sounds really amazing. And I can kind of relate to that. Just in from a design and strategy side of things, you know, obviously, when I’m working with my clients, I feel like it’s an exciting time in their business. It’s an exciting season where they are on the cusp of a lot of change and a lot of growth. And it’s just really rewarding to get to walk alongside them in that journey. And I hear a lot of that in what you just shared, too, which is amazing. But I know that so much of what you do, you really are using your skills as a copywriter to help your clients and like you were saying, to uncover that message and to connect with their ideal clients. So with this idea of what we’re talking about today of connecting with high end clients, how does copywriting help people attract higher end clientele? Oh,

Kayla Dean 5:45
yeah, copywriting is so huge when it comes to attracting high end clients. And it’s really a step that I, you know, I’m always telling people, you can’t miss this step. Like if you’re, you know, starting a business growing a business scaling in any way. copywriting is just that must have. And I always find that going really big on the brand messaging and the strategy, at that starting point, really nailing that foundational brand language is so huge, like really discovering that brand story, discovering the words and phrases of your brand, getting clear on that mission, and your why and articulating that so beautifully through the brand and just like uniting great messaging with website strategy and high conversion copywriting principles. And when those three things come together, just beautiful things happen.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 6:35
That sounds amazing. And I love how you kind of talked through the formula of some of the things it’s not just the copywriting, right? There’s also that website strategy. There’s, you know, so much of that initial strategy work, the brand strategy work, really. And all of that kind of comes together like a little formula or a puzzle to give you the results you’re looking for, which is connecting with those higher end clients, right? Definitely. Yeah, some

Kayla Dean 7:04
people think that copywriters just write the words, but I like to tell my clients that it’s not just words on a page that they’re getting, but a strategy that really works for you.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 7:13
Hmm, that’s so powerful. And over here, fellow brand strategist. So I can like just really resonate with what you’re talking about, and the kind of experience that you create for your incredible clients. Now, I know that since you’ve worked with over 100 different clients over the years, you’ve probably seen a lot of people come to you in different seasons of life in different seasons of business. With those clients of yours, who are trying to attract higher end clients, have you seen any common mistakes or things not to do that we can be aware of? as we pursue this idea of connecting with our own high end clients? Yes, absolutely. I

Kayla Dean 7:56
would say that I see four common mistakes. And I can kind of go into detail about each of these. But I would say first one is not being completely sure what we mean when we say we want to attract a high end client. So I always advise people to decide what high end means to you. Because that term isn’t always universal. I think we can mean similar things when we communicate that but getting really clear on what it means for you. I think it’s kind of like, you know, thinking about what success is for you personally, I think it’s the same with high end clients, like, what, what would equate to success for you? Is it like someone who will pay, you know, $10,000 for your service? Is it something? Is it someone who just really loves what you do and values it? Is it someone who likes luxury? You know, products and services? Is it someone who simply fits into your market, it can be a mix of all of those things, or maybe just one or two. So I think getting really clear on that is something I always advise people to do. And then another thing I see is not balancing SEO and conversion, I think that they both have a place in website copy. They’re both really important. I know as part of my process, I always give my clients and SEO starter kits. So I’ll do an audit of SEO will give them like an SEO spreadsheet will incorporate those keywords into like their page titles, the meta descriptions like into their website itself, but we’re always balancing that with conversion and really thinking about people who are coming to the site who’s reading it and also just like the stage of awareness, how aware they are of the product or service, how much we need to educate them about it or if they already are very familiar, and we’re, you know, working on other facets to get them aware. And then the third thing I see is be a little too worried about having longer copy. You know, I think conciseness is key conciseness is really powerful. But I would say you know, if it’s warranted, don’t be afraid to go longer if you’re breaking it up, and you’ve got some really great visual hierarchies with, you know, headlines and subheads, and you’re breaking it up really well on the page, it’s just finding that balance. And then the fourth one is trying to imitate influencers, and not focusing enough on yourself and what makes you

Bonnie Bakhtiari 10:22
that’s a big one. And I feel I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this one back. I know, even just, on my end, I see a lot of people who we we get distracted by what we see other entrepreneurs or influencers doing especially I think that’s just kind of the nature of social media, it’s so easy to see what other people are doing. So then we start feeling a certain way, like we need to, you know, emulate what they’re doing or copy them or, you know, move in that kind of direction. That’s a really powerful thing to be aware of that imitating people who are successful, there isn’t really a surefire strategy to achieve success, because you have to remember that what that person is doing is a strategy that works for them. And that propels them towards how they define success. But that might not be the same for you. Right? Absolutely. That is so true. So I love how you talk through those amazing Well, not amazing in the sense of, it’s never fun to find that you’re making a mistake. But I think there’s something so powerful and building that awareness and becoming aware of things that we can do in order to grow. And so keeping in mind these four mistakes that we don’t want to be making, do you have any kind of practical tips or advice when it comes to what we should be including in our copywriting? If we want to actually reach those higher end clients, you know, once we’ve gone through and defined what higher end actually means? Yeah, absolutely. So

Kayla Dean 11:54
I think I may have touched on this already. But you know, defining who that high end client is for you, I always love telling people to really take that time, you know, do journaling exercise, really get clear on it, and just let yourself free, right, get into those bigger picture ideas. And I think at this exciting phase in your business, when you’re, you know, growing or rebranding, it’s a really good opportunity to look back on, you know, what you’ve done, like what has been successful, what you want to continue with what you want to get rid of, and, you know, new kind of vibes that you want to channel into the future. So this is like such a great opportunity to do that, get really clear on those things, and get dreamy, get really excited about your mission, if you feel like you’ve had a mission in the past, but it’s it’s changed or expanded in some way, you know, getting clear on those things. That’s something that I always love to tell people to do. And, you know, when it comes to not imitating influencers, you know, it’s like you were saying, like, an influencer strategy may be attuned to that specific person, and that specific idea of success. So, you know, getting really focused on your interests, goals, ambitions, you know, directions and ideas. And, you know, getting dreamy, getting excited about what is unique and special about what you’re here to do.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 13:24
Yeah, that’s really great advice. And I love how you said getting dreamy, about, like, what, what you’re wanting and what, what matters to you. And I just I love that phrase, as people go through those exercises. And as people are able to create more of that clarity about how they want to move forward who they want to be connecting with, with this idea of reaching higher and audiences. Is there a way to successfully DIY that kind of copy? Or do you think that really at that stage in your business, when you’re wanting to scale in that way? Is it really worth? I mean, obviously, I believe it’s worth it. But do you find that it’s really necessary to go down the done for you route and work with a copywriter? Yeah,

Kayla Dean 14:10
I definitely think so. I think there’s so much value in hiring a copywriter and having that be part of your strategy, you know, especially, you know, I see clients, some of them, you know, might be, you know, designing their own website, or they have a website template, but many of them are getting custom design. And, you know, if you’re getting custom design, it equally makes sense to get custom copywriting and really have such a unique website. I’ve seen my clients come out of that experience of like, you know, if they’re getting brand photos and custom design and custom copywriting, they come away with like the most unique websites you’ve ever seen, and they’re so attuned to that person, and what they’re here to do. So I’m definitely, I guess, as a copywriter I have to be, but I’m like, yeah, I’m definitely a big proponent for that. Oh, that being said, There are definitely, you know, if you don’t necessarily have the resources to invest in a copywriter right now, or you simply would like to do your own copy at your current stage. I mean, there are many, like great courses and programs out there to do that, I think that they’re also, you know, some great kind of guided experiences that, you know, you can kind of walk through and so even if you’re not necessarily getting that custom copywriting, you know, being in a course or program or something like that can also be a really great way to get that coffee done.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 15:34
Yeah, that’s a really great, really great idea. And I know, that’s kind of a that was kind of a loaded question for you, since I know you are a copywriter. But I hear just, you know, in my own experience, as a designer and strategist, sometimes I chat with a potential client, and they say, Oh, I actually have experience in marketing, or I come from an ad agency background. So I feel really comfortable with writing my own copy. But I noticed from my own experience, that there is so much value in outsourcing the things that are not necessarily your zone of genius, and not necessarily your highest point of contribution and your business so that you’re able to do more of the work that you love and connect more consistently with the people that you want to be connecting with. So your ideal clients or customers. And so I wanted to kind of, you know, get your thoughts on that just because I do know that sometimes, you know, we are all in seasons that look different. So sometimes you might be in a season where copywriting isn’t something that you can outsource. But what I really loved is that you you shared some ideas about ways that people can still receive that guidance. So they can still move forward with the benefits of that strategy and insight into how copywriting really can work. So they can experience those kinds of really dramatic results on you know, the back end. And I think that that’s that’s kind of a big takeaway there is, you know, your season of life and business might look different. But this isn’t necessarily something to DIY, or to wing it completely unless you are coming from like a really solid copywriting background, right? Yeah, absolutely. Like,

Kayla Dean 17:17
if if people feel very confident writing their copy, you know, it’s funny, though, yeah, I know, it’s different for everybody, because I have worked with and maybe you’ve had this experience, too, I’ve worked with people who, you know, oh, like creative agencies, or marketing professionals or something like that. And they go, like, you know, I’m okay, I’m pretty good at this. But, you know, I know, it could be better, or it could be at a higher level. So people definitely, like come in with that. Something that like, I always advise newer business owners, like if you’re like, new new, like, never owned a business before, and you are just starting out, and you’re really still developing that idea. And investing in copywriting is just like really not going to happen at this point. I think that’s okay. And I think that, you know, you can definitely, you know, use some different like, you know, high converting copywriting formulas, and I think, you know, journaling, and really asking yourself the big questions to help guide you in writing a really great website. And, you know, starting there, and then once you’re like further along in business, then definitely like outsourcing, that, if it’s not your zone of genius, I think is always a really great idea, something I found with my clients is, you know, that can often be true for them as they’re like, well, I could write my own copy, but it’s just not going to be like at that really high level that I know that it could be. And then also it saves them time, like, especially, you know, maybe like some of my clients have been branded web designers themselves, they might want to be working on their like, you know, exciting new, like branding or something like that, or maybe, you know, if they’re opening like a template shop or something like that they want to focus on developing the products and not having to worry so much about the copywriting.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 19:04
Oh, that makes so much sense. And when you think about you know, the the strategy behind conversion copywriting that’s targeted towards higher end audiences, there’s a lot that goes into that there’s a lot of like sales psychology, even that goes into that, that I certainly don’t pretend to be an expert in and not everyone is and so there there is a lot of value and when you do get to that stage in your business where you are able and ready to invest in that done for you approach and it just is it’s such a easy way to take something off of your plate that is going to really dramatically connect you with the right kind of higher end audience that you’re wanting to attract through that you know done for you copywriting experience. Yeah, absolutely.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 19:56
Well, one question that I always love asking here on the brand strategy page. Cast is all about encouragement. I love how much we’ve talked about so many practical things. And you know, some great ways to move forward towards these goals and even some ways to think about how we’re defining some of these concepts for ourselves, like even what that high end audience means to those who are tuning in today. But switching gears a little bit and looking at this idea of encouragement, what kind of encouragement would you want to share to those who are tuning in today? Who are fired up about what you’re sharing? They’re excited to connect with their dream clients? Through copywriting? What kind of words would you want to leave them with today? Yeah, I

Kayla Dean 20:41
think, you know, copywriting can feel like a struggle, but you can do it. If you really start with your messaging, really thinking big about your mission, your mission and your vision and what you want to say to your clients and asking yourself the big questions without the pressure, really letting yourself get excited about your vision, and just really holding that clear in mind, and just thinking big first, and then you can start diving into the message, you know, and asking yourself questions like, how do you want to help people? What do you feel excited about doing in your business? What aspect of your business is something that you do know that you could talk about more, or you could bring up more prominently, something that I’ve seen in my clients before is like, they might be doing something in their business that they’re not really telling people about. And they could bring that out into greater focus and really show people that and and that can be such a value add. So really thinking about, you know, some of these things that you do that are value adds that you may have been doing all along, but you didn’t realize how can you let your unique personality come through? Like, what are some fun things about you that you can share, but also, you know, balancing that with how you can really resonate with your people thinking about what problems people tell you that they have. And that can be as simple you know, if you’re looking for a place to start there, that can be as simple as thinking about what past clients have said in testimonials. And people, you know, people in your community and your network, doing Instagram polls, like, if you’re really just looking for somewhere to start, just ask people to you know, ask people who read your Instagram stories. And you know, just get excited, what’s your favorite part of the transformation? If you can start answering these questions, you can really solidify your message and get to a point where you can do the copywriting so that you’re kind of not sitting in front of a blank page and going like, Okay, what is my homepage headline have to be, and you can kind of like, go do those things First, set the foundation first. And then once you’ve done those things, it will be simpler to get clearer about what should actually be written on the website itself.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 22:47
And I bet that after following those steps, it’s also probably so advantageous to bring all of those ideas and thoughts to a copywriter, if they end up working with a copywriter, right,

Kayla Dean 23:00
yeah, that is absolutely true. I have a lot of clients who come to me with like thoughts and notes and ideas and just kind of like, thinking that they’ve done about it, but it’s kind of like free form. And they really want someone to tighten it up and find the message in that, like, find the message and then transform that into strategic website copy. So that is definitely, you know, if you’re looking to work with a copywriter, and you’re going, you know, is this right? For me, that can be a great step to take as a first step.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 23:32
I love that. I also love that it sounds like you kind of get to be a bit of a detective going through some of those initial notes and finding the greater message and those themes that are woven throughout those notes. So that’s so awesome. Yeah,

Kayla Dean 23:46
I love doing that kind of like reading through people’s questionnaires, hopping on calls with my clients, you know, and talking to them about things. And I might go, you know, I do you know, things like the story brand framework. And I might be like, Oh, you know, that could be like the, you know, the villain of the core frustration in your brand. And then they’re like, oh, wow, I didn’t think of that before. That’s so cool. And then we’re like focusing on that and really zeroing in on that and the message. So really cool, surprising things come out. Once we start talking and having that collaboration.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 24:16
That is so awesome. I love that you take that really collaborative approach. And I know that you are doing just amazing things in your business. And you are just sharing so much incredible value with people through the content that you’re putting out on your website and your social channels too. So speaking of which, how can people connect with you? Where can people find you after this? Yeah, absolutely. So

Kayla Dean 24:41
they can find me on my website, the literary.co I was tell people don’t put in.com and my Instagram, which is also the literary.co I’m on Instagram all the time. So you can definitely reach out to me there send me a DM Say hi.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 25:02
Amazing. And friends. If you’re zooming in today, as always, you know that I’m going to have all of Kalos links in the show notes for today’s episode. So if you go to brand strategy podcast comm and click on the link for the latest episode, you’re gonna see all of her links so that you can connect with her quickly get to know more about her and see the incredible work that she does potentially hire her. And definitely head over to the shownotes as well for a full breakdown of the resources and the notes we’ve been talking through today. And we also are going to have a full transcript there. So, friends, thank you so much for tuning in, as always, and Kayla, thank you so much for joining us. It was amazing getting to chat with you and getting to talk through just how amazing copywriting is and how much of an impact it can have in our businesses. Thank

Kayla Dean 25:53
you. This was so much fun.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 25:54
I’m so glad to hear that. Friends. If you’ve been tuning in and you took away a nugget of wisdom or a piece of encouragement or advice that you know your industry friends need to hear, please be sure to pass this along to them. We always want to be amplifying the messages of the incredible experts that come and join us on the brand strategy podcast. And ultimately, if you’re wanting to grow or scale your business, we do not want it to be challenging. We want it to be easy and fun. And we want for you to be able to pursue what success looks like to you and what Kayla has shared with us today is going to be so helpful along that so thanks again for tuning in. And as always know that I’m cheering you on from waco.

Bonnie Bakhtiari 26:49
Thank you so much for joining me today friend. Before you go, I would be so grateful to receive your feedback on the brand strategy podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, or the podcast in general has helped you grow your brand. I’d really appreciate it if you left us a review in iTunes. Your positive reviews enable the brand strategy podcast to continue to grow and reach like minded creatives just like you. Plus, I’ll be randomly selecting a handful of lucky reviewers each month to receive a little Thank you surprise for me in the mail. Thank you for all your support and encouragement as together we pursue building brands with purpose and intention. Until next time, I’m cheering you on from waco

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My name is Bonnie – I’m a brand designer, strategist, and writer which all adds up to one eclectic conglomeration of qualities that enables me to serve you well! Past clients have dubbed me "the Joanna Gaines of brand design," and I've had more than a few call me a dream maker, a game changer, and a design wizard (my Harry Potter-loving heart didn't hate that one, let me tell you!). At the end of the day, I'm a big-hearted creative who will get teary-eyed as you share the heart behind your business; who will lose sleep over the perfect font pairings and color selections to bring your brand to life visually; and who will work tirelessly to empower, encourage, and equip you to share your work with the world intentionally. 

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