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You’ve created beautiful websites for both you and your clients, but are you optimizing your website strategy for better conversions? Copywriter and strategist, Kayla Hollatz joins me for a really powerful conversation to share how you can create impactful copy for your website to help guide your website visitors to convert into customers.
Listen in to this episode of the Brand Strategy Podcast as Kayla explains the importance of strategy over words, defines conversion strategy, and shares a few mistakes you may be making when it comes to conversion driven websites.
Kayla Hollatz is a trusted website copywriter and strategist for entrepreneurs and their favorite SaaS tools. With a focus on conversion strategy, SEO, storytelling, and brand voice development, she joyfully collaborates with clients when creating nurture-focused content with a “strategy first, words second” approach.
Strategy First, Words Second
When it comes to a website and creating conversion copy, one of the most important things to remember is strategy first. While the design and copy are so important, your strategy dictates every move you make with the other components of your website.
So rather than focusing solely on what you’re going to write and the copy you’ll create to drive conversion, you need to first consider a strategy for each page and component of your website.
What is Conversion Strategy
You may be familiar with conversion strategy, but essentially it helps get people from where they are to where they want to go. When you’re creating copy with a conversion strategy in mind, you’ll want to create it through targeted services and sales pages.
Each of these will have a primary call-to-action based on that strategy and your goal it to drive your visitor to take that action. By doing this, you’re writing copy for conversion strategy.
Reframing Your Mindset on Conversion Strategy
We know that when we increase conversions, we generate more leads and sales, but it’s important to look at the small components of our strategy and adjust them for better results.
While the visual appeal is great, it’s important for your visitors to have guidance on your website through a strategic user experience that will guide your visitors to where you want them to go.
Mistakes in Conversion Driven Websites
Before you dive into conversion strategy, let’s discuss a few mistakes you may be making on your website. The first is that you’re trying to add too many calls-to-action on your page. Outside of your homepage, you should have a primary CTA per page that will help guide users to where you want them to go. If you’re giving them too many options, you’re not getting them to the end goal.
Additionally, you need to remember that websites aren’t just there to be beautiful—they’re there to connect, inform, and sell your services or product.
Catch the Show Notes
Get to Know Kayla (1:55)
Strategy First, Words Second (5:48)
Conversion Strategy (10:25)
Reframing the Way We Look at Conversion Strategy (12:54)
Mistakes in Conversion Driven Websites (15:20)
Encouragement (29:20)
RESOURCES MENTIONED
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Review the Transcript:
Bonnie:
Hi, friends and welcome to the brand strategy podcast. A show created to equip you with the inspiration, encouragement, and clarity. You need to build the brand of your dreams. I’m your host, Bonnie Bakhtiari brand designer, strategist, and founder of the Illume Retreat from sustainable strategy to heartfelt encouragement. Each episode is designed to equip you with the tools you need to chase after your dreams, because you deserve a brand that empowers you to do what you love, connects with your dream clients and offers a deep sense of fulfillment along the way. So grab a cup of coffee and join me on this journey. Won’t you?
Bonnie:
Looking back to the brand strategy podcast, where today we are having a really fantastic conversation around websites, strategy, specifically website strategy for better conversions with the incredibly talented Kayla Hollatz. Now, Kayla, if you have not met her before, she is a trusted website, copywriter and a strategist for entrepreneurs, just like you and me. And she specializes in this focus of conversion strategy, SEO, storytelling, and brand voice development. And as a result, she’s able to joyfully collaborate with her clients and create nurture focused content that really highlights a strategy. First words, second approach Kayla and I, our paths crossed at the imperfect bosses campy years ago. And I have absolutely just loved falling along with her, her expertise and the incredible work that she’s doing as a website, copywriter and strategist since then years ago. And I’m so excited to have her on the show today. So Kayla, thank you so much for carving out the time and coming on the brand strategy podcast to have this conversation about website strategy and conversion strategy.
Kayla:
Thanks so much for having me, Bonnie. I love just the blast from the past saying that we met at imperfect boss camp so much fun having that experience there together and spending some more time even in the airport, which especially now that we’re talking about like living in the pandemic life, it just seems like it was so far away.
Bonnie:
No, you’re right. Even like just the kind of, you know, at that point, like in those before times kind of like the mundane experiences of hanging out in the airport waiting to get picked up and transported to camp, the conversations that we had in waiting areas and things like that, like such amazing memories, but also like, it feels like a lifetime ago. You’re right. Because gosh, just time has been pretty crazy since then.
Kayla:
You could not be more right about that. I’m so glad though, that like with podcasts like this and other content that we’re seeing online, it still feels like we’re connected in some kind of way, which is helpful.
Bonnie:
Absolutely. I think that, you know, thanks to the internet, we are able to keep in touch and it’s amazing to be able to foster not only like past relationships, but even relationships through social media podcasts, YouTube channels and all that great stuff. So I’m so grateful that we’re getting a chance to have this conversation. And I know that those who are tuning in today are going to be so excited to get to know a little bit more about who you are and what you do. So if you’re up for it, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself and the incredible work that you do as a website, copywriter and strategist?
Kayla:
Absolutely. While Bonnie, I feel like you said almost all of it in my intro. It was wonderful, but yes, my name is Kayla and I am a Minneapolis based copywriter. I have been doing this for about six years full time, which is crazy. I always kind of jokingly say, it’s the longest thing that I’ve ever kept up with, which is great, but I absolutely love working with creative entrepreneurs. And I also love working with SAS companies that create different tech software for entrepreneurs. So at the end of the day, um, I really do feel like I am here to serve business owners. And so it’s fantastic for me to primarily do that through website strategy and conversion-based copy. And I also do some ongoing blog content writing, um, for other SAS companies and all sorts of different things, but it’s been fantastic just for me to be able to dig so much more into website strategy.
Kayla:
It really is just kind of the, the area where I like to shine, um, so to speak. And I really love to see my clients when they work with me, light up when we’re going through on the content wireframing process and going through the different ways that we can increase conversions on their website, which I know are some of the things that we’re going to be talking about today. So I love to geek out about this stuff. And even for those of you who are new to this, I’m going to be breaking down different parts of my process. Some strategies, some ideas for you. And I’m really excited to dig into this.
Bonnie:
Me too, Kayla, I just knowing you and knowing the amount of strategy and insight and action that you bring to everything that you take on. I know that this is going to be such a great conversation and I can’t wait to hear more about really your thoughts behind website strategy and conversion strategy, because I know that we could probably like spend all day geeking out together. Before we get into that a little bit. I wanted to hear from you something that really stood out to me when I was introducing you is in the bio that you shared with me. You highlighted that you focus on a strategy first and words, second approach. And I love that that’s so caught my attention because I think that a lot of the time we can get ahead of ourselves as entrepreneurs, we can get so excited about a new offer or a new way to show up and serve people. And so we want to go straight into the words, we want to go straight into the action and we forget about the strategy. So how do you work with your clients through that strategy first and word second approach, and kind of where did that, that value come from?
Kayla:
Absolutely. It is something that has been super important to me. And it’s actually, because when I got started as a copywriter, I never was the person who took a course or had any specific training on it. Um, I went to mass communications for school. So I had a little bit on, of, you know, experience with creative writing and with other types of writing. But I really created my own method based on the fact that much like other entrepreneurs. I don’t like starting with a blank document. It feels a little scary when you’re first writing something for the first time. And you know, you kind of open it up, you see that blinking cursor and you feel like, what in the world am I going to start writing? I have no idea. So I just want you to know copywriters like myself. We feel that way too.
Kayla:
And so a good answer for me on to a little bit of that pain point was to figure out okay, in my own process, how can I create some sort of framework for myself that allows me to one, not necessarily have to start from a blank document because I have something else that’s guiding the strategy and kind of the format and the style of what I want to be writing. And so that’s really how I kind of came up with my own wireframing method. So it is something that designers a lot of times will do. They will create these custom designed, just absolutely beautiful wireframes that will knock your socks off. And that’s not exactly what I do. I take the strategy portion of what some of those designers do, but instead of working about all of the really beautiful visual elements that somebody is not hiring me, of course, to do when they are working with me on messaging, I instead take that and create kind of what I call that content.
Kayla:
Why your frame inside a really simple Google doc. So it’s something that quite literally anybody would be able to understand and to do for themselves. And I just really enjoy being able to do that because it shows me okay. If I am thinking about kind of the conversion based website that I want to create based on the offers that I have and the audience that I’m trying to attract, what are the different elements on that page that I’m going to want to have there? You know, there might be a photo banner in one place with some headline text over it, and I can actually put that inside my Google doc. So I know, Hey, Kayla, by the way, like, you’re going to want to write a headline here, maybe a few different options. And then I’ll also be able to have sections where I say, okay, maybe I want two to three sentences here, but then there’s another area where I feel like I need a little bit more content and I can actually start to create that inside my Google doc.
Kayla:
So I start to have a little bit more of a specific direction in terms of my strategy. So while I haven’t written any of the messaging yet, it does allow me to know where the content is going and what kind of content I need to actually be writing in those places. And so some of that is helpful when you’re talking about getting the messaging direction from a copywriter or somebody who does that for a living, but even for those who are DIY to start looking at different websites that you’re inspired by, and to ask yourself those really strategic decisions or questions about what kind of decisions is that specific person making that is drawing you in, what is it that you are specifically gravitating towards and all of those kinds of get you more in the strategy mindset rather than kind of rushing right into the messaging and feeling like you may either start sounding like somebody else, or you might have a hard time knowing exactly where to start with your messaging. I just think it’s much easier to start from strategy and it gives you that confidence and it builds that up so that when you actually go into writing everything, you don’t feel like you’re completely starting from scratch anymore.
Bonnie:
That makes so much sense. And I love how you broke down a bit of your process and even got into the details of what that Google doc might look like in terms of how you’re laying that out. And the thoughts that you’re having, the way that you’re approaching that with so much intention. And I completely completely hear where you’re coming from with this idea that focusing on strategy allows for the messaging and the copy to actually come together with so much more intention. Now I know that so many of us, we, we know the importance of copywriting. We know the value of hiring someone to help us and to really empower us, to get our messages in front of our ideal clients or our ideal customers, but this concept of conversion strategy, especially when it comes to how to lay out websites or build our websites with conversion in mind, how does that come into play and what exactly, maybe for those who are tuning in who aren’t quite familiar with, what conversion strategy is, uh, would you mind kind of breaking that down a little bit and kind of helping us understand why it’s important?
Kayla:
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s one of those words that has kind of almost become a buzzword where people are just kind of dropping conversion into conversations. And it’s really hard sometimes when people aren’t always defining what it means. So the most simple definition of it is really you are just helping people get from where they are to where they want to go. It’s the way that you are kind of directing them towards a specific action that you want them to take. And so on your website specifically, this is a huge reason why we really recommend for entrepreneurs to be building their websites with really targeted kind of services and sales pages. So that on those pages, you’re able to just direct people towards one key action to take. Um, a lot of times we call this a call to action. It’s commonly abbreviated to CTA.
Kayla:
So if you’ve ever seen that kind of floating around in the marketing sphere, that is kind of what we’re talking about. So if we are thinking about your sales page for a course, you know, you don’t want to be creating buttons that lead people over to your services pages and over to your about me page to learn more about you. You want to keep people on that page, um, for as long as possible as they are scrolling through learning more about your offer. And you also want to sprinkle in some of those, what we call call to action buttons or CTA buttons, so that people are able to take one action, which is of course buying your course or signing up for a wait list or whatever that looks like to you. But that’s really the simplest way for you to start thinking about conversion. And then of course, where you place those buttons, what they look like, how the content around it is formatted, all of that goes into the nitty-gritty of conversion strategy, but in terms of just understanding what it is, that’s kind of the simplest way to describe it.
Bonnie:
That makes a lot of sense. And so thinking about it in that way, instead of, you know, kind of looking at it as this like buzz term or, you know, these like really trendy kind of popular like words that are floating around, looking at it as, you know, just the thought of where we want to send people in the actions we want them to take when they’re engaging with your brand online, that is so powerful. And I think that’s just such a, it can almost feel like deceptively simple sometimes, but I think that that’s where we can see as entrepreneurs, the most growth in the most possibility and in the most opportunity is in those simple concepts or those really, uh, action-based steps like reframing the way that we’re looking at conversion strategy.
Kayla:
Absolutely. I completely agree with that. And I think when you kind of make it something where you’re trying to think more about like the buttons or the different elements of your website, it can be easier to understand kind of this elusive concept of conversions. Because of course we know that when we increase conversions, it means that we are able to generate more leads, generate more sales, and all of us say, oh yeah, I want to do whatever it is that I can possibly do for that. But really what it comes down to again is making those smaller strategic decisions when you are creating your website. And that’s why I think it’s really impactful for you to be able to take some of the messaging and even some of the design out of the equation, because I think sometimes we can get really distracted by the really pretty language, or we can get even distracted by kind of the different layouts or the different ways that we want to be seeing our sub mark and our logo come together with our new branding.
Kayla:
All of that is well and good. And it’s great to have that on your website for visual appeal, but at the same time, when we’re thinking more about this conversion strategy, a lot of people will also be able to see on their website. There’s something much deeper that that goes into, and it has to do with just really methodically placing certain elements, um, in a certain organized way, that’s going to be able to help to guide people through. And that’s a lot of times what we, um, in the website world like to call user experience, and it’s a lot of times abbreviated to UX. So if you’ve ever seen UX design or something similar to that, that’s really what we’re talking about here is trying to create the best user experience possible. And the thought process behind that is it’s not only going to help you with conversions, but it’s also going to help you with things like SEO, you know, search engine optimization, because that tells Google people want to be on your site. They’re taking action in the way that you want them to. And so that not only helps you with the performance of your website for the visitor that is there right now, but it also helps you with the visitor who might be soon that Google is going to help you bring them to your website because of all of the hard work that you’ve done with the strategy,
Bonnie:
That makes complete sense and thinking about that user experience and how we’re laying on our websites and how we’re thinking about conversion strategy as a copywriter and as a strategist, do you see entrepreneurs making, you know, a handful of common mistakes when it comes to conversion driven websites?
Kayla:
Absolutely. So of course we kind of talked about one of the most common ones, which is trying to add too many call to actions on one page on the only page where I would say that that’s not the case is your homepage, because if we like to think of your homepage, kind of as the central hub of your website, it’s very common that you’re going to see a button to a services page. Then maybe in another section, there’s going to be more of a learn about you button that goes to your about page. And maybe there are some other lead magnets and freebies that you are having to lead to your email list. So I would say that it doesn’t necessarily have as much to do with that main homepage, but just about every other page, you’re going to want it to be very specific and geared towards like one key action that you want people to take.
Kayla:
Usually I recommend that action being something along the lines of getting in contact with you, scheduling a discovery call with you, I’m buying whatever it is in terms of your product that you’re offering. Anything that’s really geared towards action is a great place to start when we’re talking about those conversions. Another thing that a lot of people don’t do enough of is that they’re not actually adding enough call to action buttons. That doesn’t mean that you have to have a short page and every single scroll you’re seeing a button because of course we all feel like that would be very overwhelming. But when you’re really thinking about your website, every few scrolls, there really should be another call to action button. A lot of times what we see website creators do, um, especially those who are entrepreneurs, who are DIY in their website, is that they’ll wait until the very end of their page to have any sort of call to action.
Kayla:
But the fact of the matter is some people are just skimming your website. And there also are other people who may be reading more of it and feeling like they’re ready to take action at a step that you may not necessarily have anticipated if you’re not doing more of the strategy, work behind it. And you’re missing out on that opportunity for them to say, at this point on the page, I’m ready to buy this product or I’m ready to start the services process. And that’s why it’s really great just to, again, sprinkle multiple of those buttons. Um, there’s different ways that I could recommend in terms of the placement of where those go. But I usually say, you know, for a typical website page, if you can have two to three of those at least sprinkled in and not necessarily too close together and make it really feel like it’s organized with the rest of the content that you’re creating, that’s one of the best ways to go. But again, make sure that those buttons are all going to the same action in the same place, rather than making people jump to different pages on your website, no matter where they’re going to,
Bonnie:
That makes so much sense. So to just to kind of clarify and make sure that I’m fully understanding what you’re saying, you’re recommending that when you are laying out a sales page or a services page to have those CTA buttons that are taking someone to either kind of the next step that they need to know in order to become an informed lead or to all of those, all those buttons, take them to the same location, which would be, you know, like, uh, inquiry form and application, uh, you know, shop page, something like that. Yeah,
Kayla:
Absolutely. So it’s kind of the, the adage is that you want to have one call to action, but you want to have multiple call to action buttons. So all of those buttons are still going to the same action in the same place in terms of whether it’s, again, like you’re talking about, whether it’s another website page to learn a little bit more, or again, it’s even better for conversions. If you’re having them go to a place where they’re able to actually buy your product or contact you for more information, but again, like being able to have multiple buttons. So it’s not where people are going to your page and if they maybe miss a button at the top, um, they’re not, they’re not going to see that action anymore.
Bonnie:
Got it. That makes so much sense. Thanks for clarifying. I just like thinking about, you know, so many of the people who are tuning in who, you know, are photographers or wedding planners, they might be followed designers, you know, kind of thinking about what sorts of sales pages or services pages they’re going to be laying out and how, you know, we can apply what we’re talking through today in a way that really makes sense in case they are updating a sales or services page in the future. So love getting to talk about the nitty gritty with you in this way. And actually speaking of those who are tuning in today, I know that quite a few designers, fellow graphic brand and web designers tune into the BSP, and I’m wondering for those designers for tuning and today, do you have any additional recommendations or steps that you would encourage them to take in order to design better sites for their clients with conversion in mind? Yeah,
Kayla:
That is such a great question, especially because I collaborate with so many designers of course, with the copywriting work that I do and, and they do such amazing work and the biggest pain point that I see from them a lot of times, especially when it comes to just building websites and having the more strategic view of it is that a lot of times their clients will be creating content before they’ve ever had a conversation about strategy or it’s something where the client feels like they have to rush really quickly to get the content in because they either thought their designer was going to be doing that for them. We see that a lot of times, or, you know, it’s just something that they didn’t necessarily know that they needed to do, or they didn’t have a budget for a copywriter, which is very common. So when you’re kind of dealing with some of those timelines and you want to be able to get started, it can be easy to bypass the strategy conversation.
Kayla:
And I think that’s honestly, my biggest recommendation for designers is that it may seem like the content organization and some of the layout considerations are outside of your typical scope of work, but at least having some sort of strategic conversation around it. So your client feels like they feel educated, they feel supported in that process. They know exactly what to give you. That’s going to be able to help you create a much better design wireframe. And then when you get ready to start building the website itself, you have the content organized in the way that you need it to be in order to create a better converting website. So that’s my main recommendation, but I would say even beyond that, to remember that sometimes the most conversion enhanced strategies aren’t necessarily always the most aesthetically beautiful. And I know that that can be a really hard thing, especially for myself, I’m a very aesthetic driven person.
Kayla:
Some of my friends joke that like, if I decided to take on the technical training of a designer, they’re like, you’ve definitely got the eye for it. And I’m sure that that comes with all of the website work that I do too. But I think it’s really important to remember that in the end, our websites are not just there to be beautiful. I mean, that, that definitely is a plus for sure. Um, but in the end, the clear and concise copy and the action oriented design is going to win out over something that is really aesthetically pleasing, but doesn’t necessarily have that strong conversion strategy in it. So remember, I mean, another thing that you can think about for designers specifically is the button style that you’re using. Is it really a button that’s standing out or is it a button that you’re trying to have worked with the rest of the design and look really subtle? So the rest of it can really kind of stand out, but at the same time, people aren’t seeing that as a button. And so they’re not clicking and they’re not making that conversion. That’s something we see all the time. So that kind of gets a little bit into the details again, but it’s really helpful to be asking yourself those questions and having those conversations with your clients. So they know exactly what to expect to
Bonnie:
That is such great advice. And as a designer, I appreciate you sharing that. You’re right. It can be like deceptively tempting to fall into that way of thinking from a design standpoint about like, how can I make this more beautiful? How can I make this more elevated? How can I, you know, really design with those aesthetics in mind, but it’s so easy to unintentionally confuse users. If we focus on it being so pretty and in doing so, we come up with something that we think is really original or really unique, but users don’t recognize it as a link or a button or something like that. Right. So that’s the kind of encouragement and the kind of reminder that we all need myself included. Yeah.
Kayla:
And I, I love the way that you put that too, because I don’t think it has to be an either or at the end of the day. I don’t think it means, well, we can’t have like aesthetically beautiful sites anymore and you know, those sorts of things, it’s just really taking all of these things into consideration and making sure, like you just said, like the user journey is still very clear and it’s something that people can still understand and it’s not so foreign to them.
Bonnie:
Absolutely. I think that some advice that I received early on in my career as a designer, that’s really stuck with me and it’s something that I like to pass on to other designers whenever I can is. Um, and I think that you’ll appreciate this too, because you are spending so much time in those wireframes and kind of collaborating with designers too. But it’s the idea that if we are creating something that is so beautiful, that it forgets to behave like other websites that people have seen users won’t know how to engage with it and users won’t know how to like navigate it and take action. And, you know, when that happens and they get frustrated and when they’re frustrated, they don’t want to pay thousands of dollars to hire you or, you know, spend money on your products or things like that. And so I think that that has been something personally that keeping in mind, okay, when I am laying out a website wire frame, how can I do this in a way that is keeping with, uh, you know, kind of the average website user experience and is not necessarily something that’s like boring or basic, but something that, uh, can kind of marry the, the aesthetic concept with those kind of behavior patterns and the familiarity and like the, you know, user behaviors that we see happen over and over again when we’re just navigating the internet, because in our day and age, that’s how we spend so much of our time, day in and day out, you know?
Kayla:
And I think it really brings it also back to when we were talking about like copywriting and messaging in general too, is, um, something we say all the time, of course, as copywriters, is that in the end, like, yes, we want messaging. That sounds really good to you, but in the end, like it is a service of speaking to your ideal clients. And I think you’re saying the same thing with design, which is you want to make sure that it still is connecting with your users and it’s not. So, um, out of the box that it’s going to potentially confuse them without you realizing it. So I think this is a really important conversation for designers and copywriters and really anybody, because we’re all in the business of connecting with people. And I think sometimes our creativity and innovation, um, can lead us toward places that are really great on paper, but then when we actually put them into practice, uh, we see that that theory is often replaced by a little bit of that confusion, or we’re not seeing the conversions that we want to.
Kayla:
And so if you have either found yourself in that position or you’re listening to this and you feel like you’re in that position right now, just know that that is a completely okay place to be. I like to look at every website as an ongoing experiment because no matter when you rebrand or if you decide to redesign or even just making tweaks to your website, I think that your website should be kind of a living and breathing thing. And so if you want to do some conversion experiments, there’s lots of different types of testing that you can do. And you can look at your analytics to kind of see how your website is performing over time based on different tweaks that you make. And again, we could have a whole other conversation about that, but I just really want to make sure that the people who are listening can understand too, that if those are things that you have been doing, or you think that that fits a mindset that you’ve had in the past, just know that like you can always be making these tweaks and changes. And I actually find it to be a very encouraging and empowering thing to do that. I, no matter what my conversions look like, I can always continue improving. Um, and kind of, again, having more of the experiment, um, mentality allows us to remember that we’re not failing at anything that we’re doing no matter what our conversions look like right now, we always just have an opportunity to be able to improve them over time. So I would say focus on that.
Bonnie:
I absolutely love the way that you phrased, you know, kind of viewing our websites as experiments and then approaching it with kind of the curiosity that comes with that. And that is just like so motivating, so exciting because you’re right then that kind of takes us from feeling like, you know, we need to have everything completely figured out or have all of our ducks in a row. And then like, this is the website and we’re never changing every time it gets to me something that is like you said, that living, breathing entity that grows with you as you grow and allows you to explore what’s possible and what connects with your audience. So you can show up, serve and sell in the best way possible. Um,
Kayla:
I couldn’t agree more with that. I think that it’s a much healthier mindset for us to have, and I think there’s a lot of messages in business that make us feel like we have to have the perfect strategies from day one. And you just can’t get there because no matter what works for other people, you can test that out yourself and you might be able to find the same kind of results, but in the end, you know, nobody knows your audience like you do. And so if you’re able to make some of those tweaks with them in mind, and again, being able to get feedback from your people, even beyond the analytics and going more towards the qualitative data that you’re able to get. I mean, all of those things are really great places for you to camp out because it’s going to help you improve your website, um, you know, year over year.
Bonnie:
I love that. Kayla. One question that I always love asking on every episode of the brand Sergeant podcast is what kind of encouragement would you want to share to those who are listening today, who are ready to leverage the website strategy, that conversion strategy we’ve been talking about to inspire connection with their ideal clients?
Kayla:
That’s such a good question. I would say the encouragement that other than of course like a website being an experiment, I think that’s a really important kind of mindset to have. But another thing is just to remind yourself that you don’t need to have everything be perfect on your own. And what I mean by that is that don’t have to have all of the answers. I think so many times as entrepreneurs, especially those of us who don’t always have like a built-in sounding board in our business, through a coach or through other internal team members. We sometimes feel like we have to pull something random out of ourselves in order to get started with anything when it comes to website conversion or anything else in our business. And I would just say that it is completely okay to lean on people, whether those are experts that are able to help you with the design and copywriting of your business.
Kayla:
It could even be friends of yours in the business industry that feel like they know you and they know your business really well, that they’re able to give you feedback about what is, and might not be working, especially if you’re able to look at data together. And then there’s also going to be, of course, the feedback that you’re able to get from your ideal clients and buyers. If you have people that you are creating really intentional friendships with who are in your audience, whether that’s your customers who have bought from you in the past or people, especially that you’ve worked with where you’ve been in the process, and they know what the experience is like with you. I mean, you can really tap on those people, especially when you’re continuing to follow up with them and build that relationship for the long-term. I think that’s one of the best parts about relationship building is we’re able to take some of these projects that we might be working on like a redesigned website or like something where it’s, maybe you’re creating a new version of the website.
Kayla:
You’re able to go to them and really ask them, is this something that’s resonating with you? Do you feel like you understand the way that I’m positioning this? Is there anything that feels like it’s confusing? All of those people can be resources that you tap on, especially if you feel like you’re kind of coming to the end of yourself when it comes to, I don’t really know maybe what to do next in terms of increasing my conversions, because there are so many things in so many insights that those people are going to be able to give you that you would’ve never been able to discover on your own.
Bonnie:
Um, I totally agree. And I think that there’s so much encouragement to be received and experienced with that idea of not having to go it alone and not having to, you know, be this, this person existing in isolation and trying to have all the answers. So I really, really love it. You called our attention to ways that we can find that support and seek that out and open ourselves up to that. And speaking of that kind of community and, you know, connecting with others who can help us and grow along the way. I know that those who are tuning in with love to be able to connect with you and follow along with you and what you’re doing and your journey. So where can people find you online? Where do you like to hang out? Yeah,
Kayla:
I mean, probably like everybody else. I love hanging out on Instagram, so you can find me on Instagram. It’s just my name, Kayla Khalid’s. And then of course my website is Kayla hollatz.com. If you want to check it out after this whole conversation about websites,
Bonnie:
Amazing and friends, of course, I’m going to have all of Kayla’s links in the show notes for today’s episode, plus this amazing freebie that she’s created and that she’s sharing with us today. It is her brand Boyce quiz. Now I know that we didn’t really get to talk much about brand voice, but with everything that Kayla’s been talking about today, the idea of conversion strategy, the idea of thinking about how you’re laying out your website in a way where it is connecting with your ideal clients, our ideal customers, your brand voice is an absolutely crucial part of that puzzle. And so Kayla’s created this fun, totally free quiz that will help you nail down your brand voice. And I’m going to have that link in today’s show notes. So if you just go to a brand strategy podcast.com and click on the link for the latest episode, you can find all of that there. And Kayla please correct me if I misremembered something about the quiz or if I left out any details, but, um, thank you so much for sharing that incredible resource with us. Absolutely.
Kayla:
I’m really excited to share the quiz. It’s something that I actually created all the way back in 2017 and it has been so cool just to be able to get emails from people who have taken it. Um, and it’s still as relevant today as it was then. So it’s so fun,
Bonnie:
Amazing, and like who doesn’t love taking a fun quiz that helps you gain more insight into how you can grow your business. That’s just the best. Exactly.
Kayla:
Exactly.
Bonnie:
Well, friends as always. Thank you so much for joining us today for, uh, you know, really supporting the brand strategy podcast. And I’m so hopeful that this conversation with Kayla today is making you feel encouraged and excited and empowered about the ways that you can elevate your websites, whether you’re going the DIY route, or whether you’re partnering up with a professional like Kayla who can help you really get in touch with your ideal clients or ideal customers and get your work out in front of them so that you can create more of an impact doing the work that you love as always, if this episode resonated with you, I would love to hear about it. I know Kayla would love to hear about that too. So feel free to connect with either of us or both of us on Instagram, and we would love to support you and cheer you on Kayla. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today, sharing your expertise on this topic and really getting into kind of the nitty gritty of practical ways that we can leverage conversion strategy for our websites, whether we’re service-based entrepreneurs or product-based entrepreneurs or fellow designers. So thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks
Kayla:
For having me.
Bonnie:
Thank you so much for joining me today, friend, before you go, I would be so grateful to receive your feedback on the brand strategy podcast. If you enjoyed this episode or the podcast in general has helped you grow your brand and really appreciate it. If you left us a review in iTunes, your positive reviews enable the brand strategy five to continue to grow and reach like-minded creatives. Just like you. Plus I’ll be randomly selecting a handful of lucky reviewers each month, Jersey a little, thank you. Surprise for me in the mail. Thank you for all your support and encouragement as together. We pursue building brands with purpose and intention until next time I’m cheering you on from Waco.
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