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Is it hard to find balance in running a business with integrity when you’re running the race as an entrepreneur in a capitalist world? It can feel impossible to build a business with compassion in today’s society, yet it is possible to exist as a business owner in a compassionate and ethical way. In today’s episode Nicole Yang joins us to share how capitalism doesn’t actually provide compassion or support, yet we as business owners can take action to ensure we’re still operating with integrity.
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Meet Nicole
Most designs only scratch the surface of their potential, and Nicole Yang is here to change that. Nicole is a brand strategist + graphic designer who has worked with dozens of online, women-owned businesses to help them turn those ideas bouncing around their head into meaningful, impactful design. She also believes that, through our work as business owners, we can create the world we really want to see. With over a decade of experience, she supports online brands and business owners by directing their visual brand, designing their product and service launches, and helping them boost their visibility and presence. Her expertise in product, digital, and print design helps women-owned businesses grow confidently and bravely.
Supporting Women-Owned Businesses
The value that woman-owned businesses can offer society is unreal, yet so often derailed by a lack of resources. While there are plenty of opportunities for support through these “support systems”, it’s not uncommon for them to not actually be supportive of everyone like they claim to be. There are so many things that could benefit society that don’t get a chance to come to life, due to this lack of inclusivity in support.
This encourages us to take a look at the systems around us, review their purpose, and reflect on if they’re actually compassionate to everyone.
Capitalism in America
In growing up in the capitalist society of America, it’s easy to just accept that this is how it is and how it should be. Yet, when you look at capitalism through the lens of compassion, you can see that it’s truly just a system that celebrates economic success and the advancement of money.
This is so heavy and challenging, especially when you’re just trying to be a human in society.
Healthcare in a Capitalist America
A great example of the lack of compassion that capitalism offers is that of healthcare. For someone living with a chronic illness, the privatization of medicine limits access to help in so many areas. Even with a solid income and health insurance, the price of some medications isn’t sustainable—yet imagine what that looks like for someone making minimum wage without health insurance.
Gatekeeping to Get Ahead
Another disadvantage to capitalism is that big companies are trying to dominate their market by gatekeeping ideas that could help society, but will bring them more money and profits. Despite the fact that a free market can offer advancement of us all as a society, we’re dampening our potential growth in order to make more profits.
The Impacts of Capitalism on BIPOC Individuals
While there are so many variations of how individuals are impacted due to capitalism, one that is important to note is the impact on BIPOC individuals. It seems as though if you’re not born into privilege, wealth, or a safety net of some kind, there is a financial barrier that holds you back. A person in a privileged position, like that of wealth, has a safety net to fall back on, whether that is an inheritance, the ability to get approved for a loan more easily, connections with resources, etc. A big medical bill can be the difference in success or failure in a new business for someone in a marginalized community.
The Impacts of Capitalism on Women
As a branding studio that works with primarily women-owned businesses, I’m seeing that women are approaching their business start up with intention and caution. Society makes so many business assets like funding available far easier for men. In looking at history, it was only the 1970s when women were even able to open a line of credit on their own—that’s not that long ago.
Running Your Small Business with Integrity
Even though the system we’re in can feel oppressive and challenging, Nicole loves the idea of running our businesses with integrity in a world that is really dominated by capitalism. Part of the fatigue around our jobs and about feeling like we can contribute anything is the fact that it can feel like we’re just running on the hamster wheel in a capitalist society. So why are we doing this?
Remind yourself of your mission. Why are you running your business? What does it offer to society? How is your business life-changing for other? What about the people you serve?
We don’t have to participate in a capitalist society just to be part of it when we are putting our values forward. You can contribute to the needs that are important to you and move your time and money behind those.
When you, as a business owner, are building your business with your values in mind and making decision from that space, you can run your business with integrity and compassion. Additionally, you can look at your own impact on your clients and then how they’ll impact the people around them.
Maintaining Values in Your Business
As you run your business, this is your encouragement to continue to maintain values in your business. While it can be easy to fall into the growth mindset of success in money, it’s important that you stay true to who you are and why you started your business. Take a look at the clients or customers that you serve—is your service or product building a better society with your impact? Additionally, are you taking advice from business owners you respect, that align with you? Go back to where you were when you started.
Take the time to challenge yourself in your business by looking at the people, vendors, and community that you’re associating with. You can experiment with your brand to ensure it continues to align with what you’ve created in your business.
There is no quick fix to capitalism, but you can take the steps to focus on your own business, your actions, and your own impact.
Catch the Show Notes
Get to Know Nicole (3:05)
Capitalism (6:34)
The Impacts of Capitalism on BIPOC Individuals (11:49)
Running Your Small Business with Integrity (17:48)
CONNECT WITH NICOLE
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REVIEW THE TRANSCRIPT:
Bonnie:
Hi friend, and welcome to the brand strategy podcast. A show created to equip you with the inspiration, encouragement, and clarity. You need to build the brand of your dreams. I’m your host, Bonnie Bahktiari, brand designer, strategist, and founder of the Illume Retreat. From sustainable strategy to heartfelt encouragement. Each episode is designed to equip you with the tools you need to chase after your dreams, because you deserve a brand that empowers you to do what you love, connects with your dream clients and offers a deep sense of fulfillment along the way. So grab a cup of coffee and join me on this journey. Won’t you,
Bonnie:
Hey friends, welcome back to the brand strategy podcast, where today we are talking about how to build compassionate business and a capitalistic world with the incredible Nicole Yang. Now, before we dive into today’s conversation, since we’re gonna be talking about capitalism, if that is a topic that you wanna brush up on, then I highly encourage you to do so. I definitely recommend checking out the smarter and second series on TikTok or Instagram. That is a series put together by historian activist and incredibly creative educator, Blair Amani. She’s also written a book called read this to get smarter about race, class, gender, disability, and more. I actually borrowed it earlier this year from my local library. It was so informative. I learned so much and I highly encourage you to check it out. You can grab a copy wherever you like to purchase your books. Or of course you can support your local library and borrow a copy that way I share all of this to say that in today’s conversation, we’re not gonna be talking so much about what capitalism is like 1 0 1.
Bonnie:
What we are gonna be talking about is how as entrepreneurs, as small business owners, we can exist within this system in a compassionate and an ethical way. Nicole and I are gonna have a great conversation about this, and I cannot wait to share this with you. So with that being said, let’s dive on in friends. Today’s conversation about building a business with integrity in a capitalist world with Nicole Yang is one that I am wow. So grateful to be able to share it with y’all my guest today, Nicole is a fellow brand strategist and graphic designer who in the decade that she has been in this industry, she has worked with so many incredible online women own businesses to help them turn those ideas bouncing around in their heads, into meaningful, impactful design. And she also believes that through our work, as business owners, we are able to take action to create the world that we really want to see, which I think so beautifully aligns with what we’re talking about today, when it comes to building a business with integrity. So Nicole, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I’m so excited to get to chat with you.
Nicole Yang:
Hi, Bonnie. I’m so honored to be here. Thank you for having me.
Bonnie:
Absolutely. Well, I wanna kind of hand it over to you and give you a chance to share a little bit more about who you are and what you do, this incredible business that you’ve built and you know, just kind of a little bit more about your story.
Nicole Yang:
Wow. Thank you. I always feel like that’s such a big question but I will try my best to sum it up. So I guess we could start with my beginning, which was at a company called Southern weddings, which is where I first started when I was out of college. And the interesting thing about working at Southern weddings is that we did so many things. We had a branding sister company and a conference sister company, and then a shop and the magazine itself, there were just a million things that we were doing. And I got, got to come in as a graphic designer and worked my way up to art director. But the thing that I noticed while I was working there is that we were just coming into contact with so many brilliant, brilliant women who have these great ideas. And I was noticing that they were just stuck.
Nicole Yang:
So whether we were helping them design an ad or whether we were coaching them in their business for the conference, they were just things that weren’t quite taking off the way they wanted them to, even though they had these really great ideas. So when I started my own business five years ago, I thought, okay, well, while I figure out what I’m gonna do next, I’m gonna start this little freelance business. And I am going to specifically try and offer design services to these women, cuz I know that they have great ideas, but for some reason they’re just not finding the designers that they need and their ideas are faltering. And it’s so sad because some of them are so brilliant. And I thought I was gonna do this for a couple months and then find my next full-time gig at another company and have a little desk job.
Nicole Yang:
But it did not turn into that. instead I had so many women who were reaching out to me saying, this is exactly what I needed and not just needed because I needed a designer, but you know, your packages are designed in a way that works for where I am in my business and supports my ideas. And it’s flexible enough that I can change my mind and kind of experiment with things. So that’s how I started my business. But it’s also a huge part of why I feel really passionate about this conversation in particular is because without having support around women, there are so many things that could benefit society that don’t get the chance to come to life.
Bonnie:
Mm, absolutely. I think that just from my own perspective, I work predominantly with women led businesses and I see how disproportionately affected women are not only in the workspace, not only in the entrepreneurial space, but even just in, at home or, you know, kind of in their personal lives. And I, I believe that support the support systems that we need to have access to in order to thrive in order to, you know, show up fully could be completely transformative to society. So yeah, I completely agree with what you’re sharing.
Nicole Yang:
Yes. And isn’t that also kind of heartbreaking is we have these transformative ideas, but one little obstacle that seems on paper, like something really simple can completely derail the entire thing.
Bonnie:
Hmm, absolutely. I mean, honestly we could probably do like tons and tons of like individual super specific episodes about the different ways that there are systems in place that are not supportive of everyone and the way that they claim to be. But capitalism especially feels so heavy because it’s everywhere, you know, here in the us like that is, that has seeped into so many aspects of our culture. And so we grow up, like when I think about, you know, my experience with this system, I grew up in this system and I didn’t know anything different because you know, as a kid, what you see around you is what you think is normal. And so beginning to see how this is a system that actually isn’t compassionate, that actually doesn’t prioritize humans that doesn’t care about our wellbeing. It, it is ultimately one that just celebrates economic success and celebrates the advancement of, of, you know, like money in that instance. You’re right. Yeah. It can be really heavy. It can be really, um, challenging to be just a, a, a person, just a human who’s existing in that space.
Nicole Yang:
And just a human. Yes. I so relate to this and it’s not something that I, I mean, I’m with you. I grew up thinking, okay, I am going to go to college. I’m gonna be a doctor. I’m gonna make money. I’m gonna be comfortable. Everything’s gonna be fine, but you don’t get to see all these little just systemic forces that kind of work against you. I mean, we just, for instance, bought our first house last year and congratulations even, thank
Bonnie:
You
Nicole Yang:
But thinking about that whole process and just thinking about how terrified I was for years that I would never get to own a house because the economic forces around us just were not working in our favor. Mm-hmm , even though we were making the most money that we had been making our entire lives, like that’s, there’s so many forces that are influencing every school aspect of our lives and it all sadly kind of comes back to money. Mm-hmm
Bonnie:
absolutely. I can actually relate to that recently. So I, I live with chronic illness called migraine and I was doing some research, uh, on the suggestion of my doctor into different treatment options, into different, you know, like prescription medications that I could take to prevent my migraine attacks to kind of lessen the severity or the frequency and some of these. And I, I, I need to be clear. I have the, I have the privilege and the benefit of health insurance mm-hmm , but looking at even the cost of some of these medications, because of the privatization in our society, which that exists because we live in a capitalist society, the privatization, not only of healthcare, but also of these pharmaceutical companies, uh, some of these medications that I could take, even with my insurance would be like $900 a month. And even with the money that my business generates, like that’s not sustainable for me. There’s no way that is completely prohibitive to anyone who lives on minimum wage to anyone who doesn’t have healthcare. Like that to me is just like, that’s not okay. You know,
Nicole Yang:
100%. And I keep thinking back to if we, I was talking to my sister about this the other day, and I think I was talking about showers for some reason. Mm-hmm I was saying, if we can create these systems and these institutions or these products that serve everyone, or that serve the people who need the most help, it literally benefits everyone. No one is hopping to an elevator thinking, oh, I don’t need this because I have legs that are functioning and have muscles and are physically well, everyone’s benefiting from the elevator. So I have many thoughts on this, but if the system really did work to help those who need it, most everyone benefits. And I think that the funniest part to me is that when the privatization of companies started a lot of the rationale behind it was, oh, if we become these private companies, we have more flexibility. There’s more room for ideas to generate because we have like this flow and we have free market competition. And like, all these ideas are gonna help us become better as a society. But what’s actually happened is that we’ve kind of dampened the effect. And instead we are basically gate keeping ideas and anything that doesn’t, um, kind of help our institution or help generate these huge profits, even at the harm of so many people, that’s completely out the window now. So now we have all these ideas that don’t get the chance to be made.
Bonnie:
Mm. Yeah. What do you think it is about capitalism, especially that makes it hard for women, for bipo folks, folks, trans folks, or anyone from a historically marginalized community to thrive.
Nicole Yang:
This is such a complicated question.
Bonnie:
I know, I know. And I’m not expecting like a perfect answer. I’m not expecting, you know, like, I think it’s important that we just clarify that this is a heavy topic. This is a layered topic. We’re not going to come to any solutions that we can wrap up with like a pretty bow on top. So it’s, it’s okay. If you know, this is something we need to address with some nuance.
Nicole Yang:
Yes. Thank you for giving that grace in that room and that margin too. Um, because you know, you and I were just talking a few seconds ago, I’m not an economist. I don’t know all the secrets of the world. Yeah. But we are both so heavily influenced and like touched by these forces. So I think, especially for anyone that’s in a marginalized community, capitalism is hard because it kind of, it rewards the system in and of itself. And I’m just thinking, you know, specific to my story and what I see in my business and in my community is if you don’t already come from a place of wealth or like any kind of privilege or any kind of place that gives you a safety net. And when, I mean safety net, I mean, both financially and socially, if I am starting a business, but I don’t have a savings account because I grew up in poverty or like, I’ve just always been financially struggling my entire life.
Nicole Yang:
I might have this brilliant idea, but I’m going to have a lot less room to test out that idea to brand a business, to be able to buy a website, to be able to buy a domain. Even if I put those funds together, I might hit one snagging the road, for instance, an unexpected medical bill, or my car broke down, or something’s happened where everything that I’ve saved to go into the business now suddenly needs to come out of it. And so there’s not that financial safety net that a person in a privileged position would normally have either by virtue of being able to access a loan more easily, because they’ll get approved more easily or having, you know, that social safety net, friends, and family who might have money or who might have resources to help them out. Um, those are all the, just a small subset of examples and of things that could potentially totally derail a plan for someone who’s in a marginalized community. And that doesn’t even begin to touch on a million other things.
Bonnie:
Right. Absolutely. And I mean, like I said, we’re only talking about it through kind of the lens of like one economic system, which is capitalism. Like we haven’t even started talking about ableism or racism or like any of the other incredibly oppressive systems that we exist under in this society. So yeah, I get it.
Nicole Yang:
Is that something that you have seen at all with your clients or with your business? Like what are you seeing kind of influenced how these ideas come to life with your business?
Bonnie:
Yeah, absolutely. I have noticed that since in the, in the, you know, know branding work that I do, I work primarily with women led businesses and I’m seeing just categorically the way that they approach starting a new business, the way that they approach, even the concept of securing external funding. That’s something that doesn’t feel available to a lot of women because of the way that this is a society that makes those assets so much more readily available to men. And I, I think that it’s important to kind of put in context, even in our country, it wasn’t until the 1970s that women even had the access to open up their own lines of credit without the signature of a husband or a parent, a male parent. And when we put that into context, that was so recent, like in modern history, that was not that long ago.
Bonnie:
You know, we’re talking like not, not centuries and centuries, we’re talking decades. And so I think it’s important to remember that we have started these businesses within a system that has not prioritized our existence from the get go and that’s heavy. And that’s also context because that shows us that what we are doing has so much potential. And if it feels like unrealistically hard, if it feels harder than like, you know, maybe that like white dude that you went to school with, like when you look at his business journey, it’s because it is, that’s not, you’re not imagining that that’s actually how the system works. Yes yes. There’s like, there’s kinda some, I don’t know. It’s so challenging. And this is actually kind of an opportunity to practice this kind of both and concept. Like, it can both be horrible. It can both be oppressive and hard and it can be kind of validating that you’re like, oh, it’s not me.
Bonnie:
Like, I’m not the problem. This system is the problem, you know, exactly. And then how do we overcome the system? Hmm. Yes. Well, that actually kind of like leads me to a question that I had for you. Uh, last year, actually, you and your team put together this really thoughtfully written blog post about running a business and building a business with integrity in, uh, you know, a world that is dominated by capitalism. And I read that I really resonated with parts of it, for those who are tuning in will definitely link to it. So you can go check it out if that would serve you well. But I wanted to ask you, Nicole, why, what is it about this idea of running our businesses as small business owners with integrity in a world that is, you know, really dominated by capitalism. Like, you know, we’re talking about how this is a really big system and how this is something that can feel really oppressive and really challenging.
Nicole Yang:
How do us like the little guys so to speak, like, how do we have a part to play in all this? Yes, this is actually such a great question because we wrote that blog post after I had spent the first two pandemic years, literally all of the pandemic years thinking every single morning, I don’t know why I’m going to my job in the morning. Like, I don’t know why I’m working on this. Like I have these wonderful clients that I love. I know that this is something that I’m good at. And I know that, you know, there are great things we can do here, but people are dying. People are struggling. Why am I sitting on my computer all day? And so I really had to take the full two years to think about what our purpose in business was. And that’s when it all kind of culminated in this idea, which is that part of the fatigue around our jobs and about feeling like we can contribute anything is the fact that it can feel like we’re just running on the hamster wheel in a capitalist society.
Nicole Yang:
Like we’re just contributing to the machine, but we’re not actually improving things. And so I just kept thinking, why are we doing this to begin with? And I had to go back to what our original values were and what our mission was. And our mission was to be serving these women because these women have brilliant ideas and these ideas quite literally can change people’s lives. I mean, I have a client who is running a calligraphy and can lettering business, which on the surface can sound, I don’t wanna say frivolous, but just like a hobby, just something like pretty that a woman might take up as a hobby, but she’s positioned it to be a form of meditative practice. And she has a ton of these resources that are dedicated to helping people work through low points in their lives, whether it’s anxiety or depression or anything that, you know, they might need to spend some self-care time, you know, meditating through.
Nicole Yang:
And that’s something that is an idea that only a woman could come up with. It is something that feels so insignificant in the grand scheme of things like, oh, I’m just gonna practice some hand lettering, but can change their lives. So they become women who are more fulfilled are happier, are able to provide more for their families, are able to think more clearly about what their purpose in their lives are and they can become more productive human beings. And so it’s small stuff like this, where once I started thinking through all those tiny things, I was like, this is life changing. I have another client who is designing, um, planners for moms of kids with disabilities. That is such a huge opportunity for us to be changing lives of women who are truly struggling to manage their families and to manage their time and to care for people in the best way possible.
Nicole Yang:
And they didn’t have a resource before and now they do. So I really just had to remind myself that we actually do have a purpose here. And part of that purpose is also empowering women to kind of like spread this ripple effect. We don’t have to participate in a capitalist society just to spin the wheel. If we put our values forward, then it means that we can use our money and our resources to further a cause that we really love. So for us, especially around the start of the pandemic, we were putting a lot of our money toward, um, the CDC and feeding America. And then we were doing into a bunch of bailout funds, like anytime that there is a need where we feel like we could be doing something bit better or bigger, we just say, we have this money that we can contribute, and we’re gonna give it to the people who can actually make a difference in a more powerful and effective way, because I’m a huge proponent of volunteering if you have the time. But I also believe that we need to be giving resources to people that are experts and they can more effectively make change.
Bonnie:
Mm. I completely agree with that. And I think that there’s something so, um, so fulfilling and rewarding about giving back to, uh, your community or contributing financially, if you’re able to, to causes that really do align with your values. And honestly, Nicole, like the, the way that you’ve, you know, kind of described taking action from a values based perspective. I think that’s, for me kind of one of the keys to all of this is, you know, yes, we acknowledge that we exist within a capitalistic society. Um, but also we acknowledge that as entrepreneurs, a small business owners, we have the opportunity to create the kind of reality that we want to see by structuring our businesses in ways that serve us well, by designing our, our businesses, our workflows, our office hours, you know, the way that we talk to people with our values in mind and the, the kind of power that this puts back into our hands allows us to create companies.
Bonnie:
I know that a lot of us, we start out as solo entrepreneurs. You know, we’re like one person shows, but what you’re creating as an entrepreneur has the ability to turn into a company, a team, something that’s bigger than yourself. And if you’re building that with your values in mind, and you’re making decisions from that space, you are creating this, this incredible thing, this entity that allows you to generate the revenue that we need to exist in this society. That’s just a fact, but also it allows you to generate the kind of revenue that you can then use to give back, to invest in the kind of change that you actually want to see in the world. And it allows you to directly impact your team. If you have one, the, the clients or the customers that you’re working with, and that can be such an such a compassionate process. And that’s something that I get really excited about when I think about how I can, I can take action from that space, or I can encourage my clients to take action from that kind of space. I think that’s where, um, something really beautiful starts to happen.
Nicole Yang:
I totally agree with that. And I think focusing on that ripple effect is I feel where the magic is because I had all these ideas to myself, you know, just as I was coming out of this fog where I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to be running my business at all. Mm-hmm and it’s easy to say, oh yeah, I can help this person with their business and their business is this really beautiful idea, that’s one step. But then you think about all the people that their business is gonna affect. That’s the second step. And then you have to think about the teams that you’re affecting as well. Like we have clients who have started making enough money that they’re hiring on their friends and their husbands, which I think is amazing. And they’re family members, and they’ve got, you know, high schoolers from the community who are working for them.
Nicole Yang:
Part-time and then they’re investing more into their community and providing some more of those resources as they become experts. It’s one of those things that I feel is, so it feels so grassroots and authentic, even though I hate using that word. Um but it really does work that way. And I think that’s also where we have to be a little intentional about, you know, which causes are we choosing to support. And when I say support, I don’t even mean always financially. It could be through your resources or through your time, but making sure that because we have such huge ripple effects, that we also need to be a little bit aware of where we’re spending our time and where we’re spending our money. So at least for us, like that means that we wanna be a little more conscious of who our clients are and what kind of ripple effects that they have. And we wanna make sure that we’re not kind of perpetuating some of the same, um, communities and the same resources in communities that might not need it the most.
Bonnie:
Mm. I really respect that. And that makes a lot of sense. You know, if we think about running our businesses with integrity, part of that looks like, you know, uh, an action that is filled with integrity is examining the kinds of clients that you’re taking on and ensuring that those clients are aligned with your values and are aligned with the kind of transformation that you want to continue to see in the world. And, you know, there’s some folks that aren’t gonna be the best fit and that’s okay. Like, I, I think it’s, I think there’s something really powerful and kind of normalizing that, that kind of, it’s not that we’re being like selective where we’re like, you know, being snobby about it. It’s literally just like acknowledging that there are power imbalances and that when we focus on working with folks who have been disproportionately and negatively affected by those power imbalances, we can create more of the change that the world needs at this point.
Nicole Yang:
Yes. And I think that, again, this goes back to what kind of change we do want to see in the world. Cuz I think that there, there might be a little bit of resistance to kind of diversifying the ideas that are out there or the people that you work with. And I think it comes back to, are we really allowing the best ideas to come forward? And that’s something that I thought a lot about over the past couple years. And especially when I first started my business, I started my business thinking, you know, once, once it actually looks like a viable business, I thought I’m so excited. I have like all these ideas and I have all these, I, all these things that I wanna do differently and things that I haven’t seen done before. And then I got into the quote unquote business world and I was being told by so many people, oh, don’t do that.
Nicole Yang:
That’s just not the way that it’s done. You’re not gonna be successful that way. Like marketing is done this way and packages are done this way and pricing is done this way. And I think that so many business owners and new business owners kind of get stuck in that where they have these big, beautiful brains and they have these ideas, but it’s getting pushed down by the system of online business. And I think that if we value what our brains can do and if we value our ideas and if we really wanna be true to why we started our businesses in the first place, then that also means giving the ideas of anyone else in a marginalized community, the chance to rise to the top as well.
Bonnie:
Mm absolutely. And I think something really incredible about that process is, you know, we at this point, you know, you and I, we have, we’ve been in this online business owner space for, you know, for a minute. And so we’ve seen the way that, you know, kind of the more like socially acceptable way to market your business, to structure your business, to structure your offers, to, you know, kind of do all these things. And, um, from my perspective, I kind of like, I’m just really burnt out on like the traditional bro marketing, like form of running an online business. Like for me, that’s like, it’s not life giving. It’s not
Nicole Yang:
Fun. Oh my gosh. Yes. I agree. I
Bonnie:
Just don’t enjoy it. Like I can’t, I can’t, I can’t do it anymore. And so that’s something that I have been kind of unpacking and figuring it out, like, all right. I really, you know, I started my business in 2012. I really came up in the online business space at the time where like, you know, very well intending bro marketers were telling us how to do things. And like, I’m, you know, I personally in this space where I’m like unlearning all of that, that no longer serves me. And so there’s something that I find so incredibly refreshing about like basically anybody else sharing their thoughts, the trends they see, the insight that they have. And I think it helps us to create an online space that feels more reflective of what the world actually looks like. Um, mm-hmm because it’s, you know, like the, I don’t know, I, I just feel like one seen one teeny tiny, like overwhelmingly like white and male dominated way of doing things.
Bonnie:
Like that’s fine. That’s, that’s fine. But like we’ve, we’ve had enough. I think collectively a lot of us we’ve just that’s, you know, had centuries of, of time in the sun. Let’s like make space for other people. Oh yeah. Not enough. yeah. It’s it’s thanks. But no, thanks. We’re over it. So I think that from my perspective, I’m at this point where like, it’s just so refreshing to see other people doing what serves them better to see other people approach marketing in a way that honors their energy, that honors their values, that honors the way they wanna show up in the world. I’m, you know, I’m seeing people structure their businesses in a way that feels equitable and compassionate and filled with integrity. And I’m seeing folks take all this action that like, you know, kind of like from that like traditional like, well, this is the way we’ve always done it kind of standpoint.
Bonnie:
It’s like, it’s not, it’s not, you know, the same, but that’s good because the same old same wasn’t serving us anymore. And I would argue that the same old same has not been serving anybody for a really long time. So I’m, I’m really encouraged to see that more folks out there are giving themselves the space and the permission to embrace their own unique voices, their own unique way of doing things. And I’m especially encouraged to hear that Nicole, you’re really focusing on through the work that you are doing and the, the incredible design and strategy work you’re doing with your, your own clients. You’re creating the tools and the assets that people need in order to really make those businesses grow to their full capacity.
Nicole Yang:
Thank you so much for saying that. And I mean, it’s a, it’s not a quick fix, right. For anyone. I mean, and that just goes back to what you were saying earlier, Bonnie, which is that it’s okay to be a little picky about the clients that you take on. And it’s not just a matter of, you know, diversifying ideas or spreading the wealth and the resources. Sometimes it’s also a matter of who is going to help you. And who’s going to hop on board, this train that is moving in the exact opposite direction of where business has gone in the past few years or in the past couple centuries. I mean, there are, there was a couple years ago. I don’t even remember what we did anymore, but we were thinking about changing something in our business. And I kept saying, this is a great idea, but we can’t do it because none of our clients are gonna be on board.
Nicole Yang:
And if, if they’re not on board, it just can’t happen. And that was something that was so frustrating to me because I knew that if we had made that change and now I wish I could remember what it was if we had made that change, I knew it could’ve helped everyone. It could’ve helped us and it could’ve helped our clients, but it would’ve just been a really, really hard sell to say, let’s just completely turn over this thing that you’ve been doing for so long. And so if you can get someone, if you can work with someone, whether that’s on your team or as a client or customer who is willing to who shares those values and is willing to kind of experiment with you, it means that you can make change faster. And again, you can experiment with change because not everything’s gonna work the first time and then you can figure out what really does work best for everyone. And again, if you make one change to help someone who is in pain or who is really struggling, it really does help everyone.
Bonnie:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I, I think that remembering that this there’s not a quick fix remembering that, you know, like I said earlier, this, I, I wish that we could like wrap up this episode with like this perfect solution. there, Nicole and Bonnie fixed capitalism. right in 30 minutes. Um, I, I, you know, I acknowledge that that’s not realistic, but I think that what is important to focus on, at least what encourages me is remembering that we can take action that aligns with our values. We can make decisions and take steps that serve us well, we can link arms with people who share those values and that reminds us that we’re not alone. And that as business owners, we can take intentional action and practice running a values aligned business in the midst of, yes, we do, you know, exist in a capitalist society. Um, and there’s something that can encourage us in that, in that kind of knowledge of you are still able to practice running that sort of business, you know, running that business with integrity.
Bonnie:
And it’s gonna be a process. I know that we like to experience quick and tidy and efficient solutions, but Nicole, like you were saying, you know, getting whether it’s with a client or a team member or, you know, even just yourself, but, um, partnering with people, communicating with people, communicating with yourself, you know, about some of the changes that you wanna make about some of the, the new steps that you wanna take about maybe the language that you’re using or the, you know, gosh, there’s so many different examples that we could go through. Mm. Basically giving yourself the space to, to take those steps. But remember that it’s gonna be a process and that it’s okay if, if that process moves slowly, because at least it’s, it’s moving in the, in the direction that you want it to move in. And at least you’re giving yourself that channel to pour your energy into. Um, sometimes I think that, yeah, I mean that I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll leave it there. Like that can be, um, an encouraging kind of thought process to explore
Nicole Yang:
Yes. 100%. And I, I also just wanna add, this is a hard topic and it’s heavy, but the end process should be enjoyable and it should be fun. You know, capitalism is so heavy and we’re all just so tired of it and something that I keep telling my clients and that I keep thinking about is if we’re all having more fun in our business, that takes off so much pressure, we are not having to sell so much because everyone’s tired of being sold to. I mean, I literally walked into my kitchen the other day and my Alexa was, you know, showing me an ad for something that I never, I didn’t even think she was capable of doing that.
Bonnie:
Yeah,
Nicole Yang:
We’re just being sold to constantly. But if in our businesses, we can just approach it as loving what we’re doing and having fun, which I know sounds a lot harder than what I’m making it seem. But if we go back to those values and we really enjoy what those values are, it makes all those decisions easier. And it means that your business has a presence that isn’t about selling. It’s about inviting people in and saying, are we on the same team? Do we like the same stuff? Should we hang out together? And that feels so much better. So hopefully the end process is something that’s enjoyable.
Bonnie:
Mm, definitely. And I love that. I love that. That kind of picture that you painted, because that feels, that feels fun. That feels like life giving and joyful and, and joy can be so, so, so life changing. Um, and you know, I think that it’s, it’s so powerful to remember that as small business owners, no matter what we’re doing, even if on the surface, it might seem like you’re not making a difference. You know, oh, I’m just a photographer. I’m just a calligrapher. I’m just a design. You know, it’s so easy for us to kind of downplay the work that we do. But Nicole, like you were saying, the work that we do can create this beautiful ripple effect, not only into our lives, our family’s lives, but the lives of our friends, of the people in our communities, our clients, and then wow. If your work positively impacts your client, that ripple effect starts all over again in their life with their family, with the people in their communities, with their clients. And that is something that is incredibly exciting to me because that’s how we make change. Right? Like we start small, but those ripple effects keep going. And who knows, like that impact could be infinite. So, you know, on those days where you feel like shutting it all down, you know, cuz there have been times over the last, like at least three years where I’ve been like, Hey, maybe we should just shut it all down. Yeah.
Nicole Yang:
Bonnie:
Yeah. I think that like, first of all, let’s normalize having those thoughts sometimes because you know, running a business is not easy. It’s not glamorous all the time, but also like let’s remember that like what you are doing, it matters. It’s having a positive impact. You know, we’re not out here trying to be like the next, at least I’m not, I’ll speak for myself. I’m not out here trying to be like the next Jeff for the next Elon. I’m trying to be me. And I’m trying to create a business that helps people in the way that I’m uniquely equipped to help people. And I wanna help people do that. do more of that. Yeah. And I think that, you know, that’s something that keeps me going, even when things feel heavy or confusing or you know, all the things ,
Nicole Yang:
I’m so glad you said that. And I mean, I could talk about this for literally hours, but I will just tag this onto the end, which is you mentioned being a Elon or a Jeff or a mark. And I think that this is a common misconception. Whenever we do talk about capitalism in this context, which is that capitalism is bad and money is bad and it’s not, I want all of us to be rich. I would love to make a ton of money and I think that that’s okay, but it can happen simultaneously to being generous and being generous, not just with your money, but with your time and your resources and just being a human who thinks about other humans. Um, you know, a couple years ago we started a grant program for women of color where we basically develop their business and then give them, you know, some funds to help them get started. And that’s something that is a financial undertaking for us, but it has simultaneously allowed me to feel wonderful about my job, which means that I get more joy out of doing my work, which means that I make more money. So I, I’m not saying that it’s always going to be a one-to-one ratio where you give as much as you get and where you, you know, receive as much as you give and all of that. But I, I just don’t think that we should think about these things in mutually exclusive terms.
Bonnie:
Mm that’s a really good point. And I definitely would agree with that. It’s it’s not that, you know, we’re not demonizing capitalism from a, a standpoint of like money is bad and this is the worst we’re acknowledging the harm that a system has created. And we’re acknowledging the way that prioritizing this one system over other systems has kind of minimized the opportunities that so many people have access to. And with that being said, um, the, the power in creating a business that prioritizes humans that cares for them, that’s compassionate that, you know, really focuses on, on that kind of approach that can be radical. That can be incredibly transformative. And I, I should clarify. I’m not, I’m not like over here, like, you know, hating on like Jeff and Elon because I think they’re like, you know, greedy or anything like that. I don’t, I don’t respect the, the way that they have built their businesses by exploiting people.
Bonnie:
That’s where I have a problem. And so I have no problem with the like honestly ridiculous amounts of money that they’ve created. Like I think that, you know, like you said, Nicole, I want us all to be incredibly rich. I want us all to have like the, just gosh, the stupid amounts of money that we need or that we want. Um, but with, you know, that being said the way that we go about generating that wealth that matters. And I think that with what we’re doing, the actions that we’re taking, we’re pursuing, growing wealth, we’re pursuing, helping others. We’re pursuing, having an impact through the work that we do in a way that ultimately just feels like it’s filled with integrity, which is kind of, you know, the whole point of what we’re talking about today.
Nicole Yang:
Yes. that came full circle nicely. I
Bonnie:
Did. That was wild. not planned at all, but Nicole, I know we’ve covered so much, so much goodness today, and I know that this is something that honestly we could keep talking about just for hours and hours, because I think you and I both have a lot of thoughts on this
Nicole Yang:
oh my gosh. Yes.
Bonnie:
But as a final piece of advice or a final piece of encouragement for those who are tuning in today, when we think about running that business with integrity in a capitalist world, what kind of takeaway do you wanna share with folks today?
Nicole Yang:
Uh, I think my takeaway would be to think creatively about this. I think that’s something that we don’t often get to do in our businesses, which sounds terrible, but you know, we’re kind of locked sometimes to our workflows in our systems and, you know, things are the way they are for us to be efficient, but doing your work with integrity, doesn’t have to be something that sounds boring, like writing out your mission or writing out your value statement. It can be something that feels really creatively fulfilling to you. Um, and I don’t know exactly what that is, but I think that it can be that, um, to me, our grant program was that is just really fun way that I thought we could use our resources so that I hope is a good takeaway. Is that again, this should be fun and we can be using our brains in so many wider ways than we are right now.
Bonnie:
Hmm. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that with us today. That’s such an incredibly affirming and uplifting note to wrap this up on Nicole. I know you shared about the incredible work that you are doing. I know you shared about the amazing grant program that you’ve created. If people who are listening today, wanna connect with you online and learn more about working with you or just following you along with you in your journey, where can they go to do
Nicole Yang:
That? Thank you for asking. Um, so if you’re on Instagram, my handle is Nicole A. Yang and that’s Nicole without the H and my website is Nicole Yang design.com. And if you’re curious about our grant program, that is on Instagram as well at waves of change grant and waves of change, grant.com,
Bonnie:
Amazing and folks who are tuning in as always everything that Nicole shared, all of those resources and links I’m going to make sure are linked up in the show notes for today’s episode, as well as a full transcript of this conversation. So if you would benefit from that, you can head over to brand strategy, podcast.com, click on the latest episode link, and you will go exactly where you need to go. But Nicole, thank you so much for coming on the show for having this conversation with me, for your willingness to undertake what can feel like a really sticky and complex and you know, very nuanced topic. I’ve honestly had a lot of fun. I know that this like is a very strange topic to enjoy talking about, but like I loved talking about this with you, and I’m really grateful to be able to share your perspective and especially the, um, very thoughtful ways that you are prioritizing running your business with integrity.
Nicole Yang:
Thank you so much, Bonnie. I agree. This was a heavy topic, but you made it fun. And my little introverted engram five heart feels so filled by this conversation. So thank you for having me.
Bonnie:
Mm. I love that. That just makes my little Ingram two heart. So, so happy and warm. so friends who have been tuning in today, I hope that this conversation has left you with lots of good stuff to consider. I hope that you’re walking away with encouragement. I’m hopeful that you’re walking away with action steps that you wanna take. Um, as always, my DMS are open, so you can always connect with me on Instagram at Bonnie joy. Marie, if you wanna, you know, talk through this more or if this sparked something that you wanna explore, uh, more in that way, and I’m always grateful for you being a part of this, this community for listening and for your support for the brand strategy podcast. So thank you for being you. Thank you for tuning in and as always I’m cheering y’all on from Waco. Thank you so much for joining me today, friend,
Bonnie:
Before you go, I would be so grateful to receive your feedback on the brand strategy podcast. If you enjoyed this episode or the podcast in general has helped you grow your brand. I’d really appreciate it. If you left us a review in iTunes, your positive reviews enable the brand strategy podcast to continue to grow and reach like-minded creatives. Just like you. Thank you for all your support and encouragement as together. We pursue building brands with purpose and intention until next time I’m cheer you on from Waco.
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